Unconsciousness/subconsciousness

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

I am re-posting a message I had posted on a similar thread some months ago.

The unconscious/subconscious mind is believed to be much more powerful and knowledgeable than the conscious mind. Typically it is compared to an iceberg where only a small part is seen outside while a large part lies unseen under the water.  This has of course been known for centuries.

The unconscious is probably the source of our intuition, as Jung believed.  The unconscious is normally compared to a parallel processing computer while the conscious mind is compared to a sequential processing one. It is therefore considered more capable and reliable than the conscious mind. 

Scientists are now trying to understand the unconsciousness rationally through various experiments. What does this actually mean? Can the tip of the iceberg understand the remaining  90%? Does the conscious mind have the capacity to understand the unconscious?  Do we even need to 'understand' it rationally?

We ARE the unconscious mind much more than we are the conscious mind.  We only need to realize this. We don't need to understand it consciously.  The unconscious mind normally gets subdued by our emphasis on the conscious mind and we are unable to use its knowledge and wisdom. The unconscious gets sidelined by the conscious.

We don't listen to our intuition and think every problem can be resolved rationally and by conscious thought. Many of our modern day mistakes regarding the ecosystem are due to this fact.  The fact that the conscious mind simply cannot cope with the complex problems of our world is the source of our mistakes and also our stress and anxiety.

One way of sorting out this problem is by disciplining the conscious mind and making it quieten down while allowing the unconscious to dominate our lives. This is what Yoga, pranayama and meditations do.

Cheers.

Sriram

[torridon]

I don't think we can sideline conscious mind entirely, it must have a significant role to play otherwise it would not be there.

The characterisation of mind into subconscious/conscious also is rather simplistic. What we have is a range of degrees of consciousness.  For examples of different conscious states : asleep, awake, coma, hypnotised, drunk, dreaming, hallucination, day-dreaming, epileptic fit; these are just a handul of well known broad brush conscious states but in reality our state of consciousness varies continuously from moment to moment and is constantly mediated by the hormonal state of the brain. The deeper levels of consciousness act like reservoirs of our deeper volitions, and stilling the frenetic activity of consciousness I guess puts us in closer touch with deeper elements of our psyche. I think we have a way to go before we understand all these things.

[Sriram]

I don't think we can sideline conscious mind entirely, it must have a significant role to play otherwise it would not be there.

The characterisation of mind into subconscious/conscious also is rather simplistic. What we have is a range of degrees of consciousness.  For examples of different conscious states : asleep, awake, coma, hypnotised, drunk, dreaming, hallucination, day-dreaming, epileptic fit; these are just a handul of well known broad brush conscious states but in reality our state of consciousness varies continuously from moment to moment and is constantly mediated by the hormonal state of the brain. The deeper levels of consciousness act like reservoirs of our deeper volitions, and stilling the frenetic activity of consciousness I guess puts us in closer touch with deeper elements of our psyche. I think we have a way to go before we understand all these things.

I agree that there are probably several levels of consciousness.

My point is that the normal idea of the subconscious is that it is some kind of a storehouse in which repressed and unconscious memories are stored and re-accessed sometimes in dreams and other such situations. Some psychological problems were attributed to the subconscious.  This could be a very simplistic view.

In reality the unconscious mind could turn out to be a very complex kind of awareness that is far superior to the conscious mind....and not only stores lot more memories but also takes decisions from a much broader perspective.  We have already seen that the subconscious takes decisions before the conscious mind becomes aware of it.

I agree that the conscious mind has a purpose...but we tend to treat it as the principal driver and deciding authority and assume the subconscious to be some kind of a large store room.  This may not be so. 

The conscious mind could be the front office that picks up information and supplies it to  the unconscious mind....which is the real production and creative workshop....besides many other things that we probably cannot know consciously.

[floo]

I am of the opinion the unconscious mind is extremely active.

[ekim]

There is another way of viewing the conscious/subconscious/unconscious relationship. The unconscious is an underlying potential capable of being realised by, as some might say, withdrawing consciously into it or, others might say, turning the attention (consciousness) towards it.  Between the conscious and the unconscious is the subconscious which is made up of the forms and forces accumulated throughout a lifetime which is capable of recall e.g. emotions, thoughts, concepts etc. and which can occupy one's attention (conscious direction) and prevent/delay the realisation of the potential beyond.

[ippy]

Hi everyone,

I am re-posting a message I had posted on a similar thread some months ago.

The unconscious/subconscious mind is believed to be much more powerful and knowledgeable than the conscious mind. Typically it is compared to an iceberg where only a small part is seen outside while a large part lies unseen under the water.  This has of course been known for centuries.

The unconscious is probably the source of our intuition, as Jung believed.  The unconscious is normally compared to a parallel processing computer while the conscious mind is compared to a sequential processing one. It is therefore considered more capable and reliable than the conscious mind. 

Scientists are now trying to understand the unconsciousness rationally through various experiments. What does this actually mean? Can the tip of the iceberg understand the remaining  90%? Does the conscious mind have the capacity to understand the unconscious?  Do we even need to 'understand' it rationally?

We ARE the unconscious mind much more than we are the conscious mind.  We only need to realize this. We don't need to understand it consciously.  The unconscious mind normally gets subdued by our emphasis on the conscious mind and we are unable to use its knowledge and wisdom. The unconscious gets sidelined by the conscious.

We don't listen to our intuition and think every problem can be resolved rationally and by conscious thought. Many of our modern day mistakes regarding the ecosystem are due to this fact.  The fact that the conscious mind simply cannot cope with the complex problems of our world is the source of our mistakes and also our stress and anxiety.

One way of sorting out this problem is by disciplining the conscious mind and making it quieten down while allowing the unconscious to dominate our lives. This is what Yoga, pranayama and meditations do.

Cheers.

Sriram

Catch up with Prof V C Ramachanderan a really intelligent Indian neurologist, lots of him on YouTube, take care Sriram he has a really good well developed sense of humour too.

(I think I've spelled his name correctly if not, it's near enough).

ippy

[torridon]

I don't think we can sideline conscious mind entirely, it must have a significant role to play otherwise it would not be there.

The characterisation of mind into subconscious/conscious also is rather simplistic. What we have is a range of degrees of consciousness.  For examples of different conscious states : asleep, awake, coma, hypnotised, drunk, dreaming, hallucination, day-dreaming, epileptic fit; these are just a handul of well known broad brush conscious states but in reality our state of consciousness varies continuously from moment to moment and is constantly mediated by the hormonal state of the brain. The deeper levels of consciousness act like reservoirs of our deeper volitions, and stilling the frenetic activity of consciousness I guess puts us in closer touch with deeper elements of our psyche. I think we have a way to go before we understand all these things.

I agree that there are probably several levels of consciousness.

My point is that the normal idea of the subconscious is that it is some kind of a storehouse in which repressed and unconscious memories are stored and re-accessed sometimes in dreams and other such situations. Some psychological problems were attributed to the subconscious.  This could be a very simplistic view.

In reality the unconscious mind could turn out to be a very complex kind of awareness that is far superior to the conscious mind....and not only stores lot more memories but also takes decisions from a much broader perspective.  We have already seen that the subconscious takes decisions before the conscious mind becomes aware of it.

I agree that the conscious mind has a purpose...but we tend to treat it as the principal driver and deciding authority and assume the subconscious to be some kind of a large store room.  This may not be so. 

The conscious mind could be the front office that picks up information and supplies it to  the unconscious mind....which is the real production and creative workshop....besides many other things that we probably cannot know consciously.

Most of that seems reasonable to me. The only issue I would pick with that is the last paragraph, because as I understand it, the timeline is the other way around, ie conscious awareness is the very last point in a chain of increasing awareness, so it is unconscious mind integrating with novel sensory input which eventually yields our blended consciousness stream. This understanding, although counterintuitive, makes sense of what you say in para 4, it helps to explain why we do not make decisions in conscious mind - conscious mind is always the last fellow to find out what we decided

[Sriram]

I agree that there are probably several levels of consciousness.

My point is that the normal idea of the subconscious is that it is some kind of a storehouse in which repressed and unconscious memories are stored and re-accessed sometimes in dreams and other such situations. Some psychological problems were attributed to the subconscious.  This could be a very simplistic view.

In reality the unconscious mind could turn out to be a very complex kind of awareness that is far superior to the conscious mind....and not only stores lot more memories but also takes decisions from a much broader perspective.  We have already seen that the subconscious takes decisions before the conscious mind becomes aware of it.

I agree that the conscious mind has a purpose...but we tend to treat it as the principal driver and deciding authority and assume the subconscious to be some kind of a large store room.  This may not be so. 

The conscious mind could be the front office that picks up information and supplies it to  the unconscious mind....which is the real production and creative workshop....besides many other things that we probably cannot know consciously.

Most of that seems reasonable to me. The only issue I would pick with that is the last paragraph, because as I understand it, the timeline is the other way around, ie conscious awareness is the very last point in a chain of increasing awareness, so it is unconscious mind integrating with novel sensory input which eventually yields our blended consciousness stream. This understanding, although counterintuitive, makes sense of what you say in para 4, it helps to explain why we do not make decisions in conscious mind - conscious mind is always the last fellow to find out what we decided

Yes...that means the unconscious mind with all its capabilities has been present and ticking while the conscious mind has been evolving.

[splashscuba]

Unconsciousness/subconsciousness are just labels we give to what we think of as states. It's still just one mind.

[Udayana]

But ... is there such a thing as a "mind" ? Isn't it just part of our ridiculously poor model of what is going on in our brains and nervous systems?

[splashscuba]

But ... is there such a thing as a "mind" ? Isn't it just part of our ridiculously poor model of what is going on in our brains and nervous systems?

{shrugs} it's just a word we use to poorly describe what we see and experience