Scared of being questioned!

[trippymonkey]

MMM
'Christianity' creates the crime & gives us the punishment-fine-wayout too...

Very clever ?!!?!? NOT !!!!

[floo]

Hope, you can't answer the question I put on those two forums, you always fudge it!

The problem is that often what you call 'questions' are unsubstantiated statements, and often that is then complicated by the fact that you use terminology that is, at the best, ambiguous.

WHY IS THE DEITY CALLED A GOD OF LOVE? Is that ambiguous?

He is called a God of love because when we were still sinners Christ died for us. He is called a God of Love because he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish but will have eternal life. He is called a God of love because He loves us. Each and every one of us. Even me. There are plenty more reasons but those are enough for me

Sinners? My gosh not one human is as evil as the deity depicted in the Bible, even the worst of us! What sort of evil b*stard would get a virgin pregnant and then have her son die in such a horrible way, only a very evil entity!

[trippymonkey]

Quite.
And just how much of this has been previously agreed upon.

Doesn't seem very well thought out this. Now It DOES sound like some half-baked idea a HUMAN or HUMANS might try to fool people with... however ?!!?!?

[jjohnjil]

Quite.
And just how much of this has been previously agreed upon.

Doesn't seem very well thought out this. Now It DOES sound like some half-baked idea a HUMAN or HUMANS might try to fool people with... however ?!!?!?

Of course it is!  What would an all-powerful, know-everything, god be at all interested in whether anyone believed in him, why should he!

An organisation that needed to keep ordinary people down, while they themselves lived in palaces, had every reason to need the peasants to believe in this monster who'll make them suffer forever if they do the slightest thing wrong!

How Christians ever fall for this carrot and stick idea of having to 'Believe' has always been a wonder to me.  It's so obvious that gods - if they want anything at all - would never want any minion like us to believe in them!

[jeremyp]

This shows the hypocrisy of your viewpoint.  If the reports I've been hearing on the news recently are to be believed, some half a million people have entered Europe 'illegally' since the beginning of this year - and perhaps as many as a further 30% of that number have died in the attempt.  You question whether a deity who is called a God of love can shrug its shoulders and walk away (something that I don't believe that he has done, by the way) yet ignore that fact that for much of the last 9 months this is exactly what the very thing you believe can rescue us - humanity itself - has been doing.  Is it not humanity who have been packing these would be migrants into overcrowded  boats, taking in some cases 4-figure sums of money to do so?

Are you really so callous that you couldn't care less about those who we have heard about on a daily basis over the summer, let alone the 4+ million who have fled Syria to refugee camps in neighbouring countries over the last 4 or 5 years.

Where has humanity been in any serious attempts to resolve the situation since it started 5 years ago.  Apart from bombings and drone strikes, has anything of any real value been done?

This is a disgusting post. Nobody has suggested that what is happening is not truly awful and it is not humans (not humanity) that is responsible.

But it is not the humans that are under discussion here, it is your alleged god of love whose actions are under examination. If your god exists and he lets 30% of all migrants to Europe drown without intervening, how is that not walking away? Your insistence that God hasn't walked away is revealed to be more hollow with every drowned body that is washed up on the shores of Europe.

[jeremyp]

He is called a God of love because when we were still sinners Christ died for us. He is called a God of Love because he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish but will have eternal life. He is called a God of love because He loves us. Each and every one of us. Even me. There are plenty more reasons but those are enough for me

He is called the god of love even though he allows refugees to drown in their thousands. He would be an arsehole if he existed.

[trippymonkey]

Quite.
And just how much of this has been previously agreed upon.

Doesn't seem very well thought out this. Now It DOES sound like some half-baked idea a HUMAN or HUMANS might try to fool people with... however ?!!?!?

Of course it is!  What would an all-powerful, know-everything, god be at all interested in whether anyone believed in him, why should he!

An organisation that needed to keep ordinary people down, while they themselves lived in palaces, had every reason to need the peasants to believe in this monster who'll make them suffer forever if they do the slightest thing wrong!

How Christians ever fall for this carrot and stick idea of having to 'Believe' has always been a wonder to me.  It's so obvious that gods - if they want anything at all - would never want any minion like us to believe in them!

Well... exactly, eh ?!?!?!!?!
Why would a god 'need' belief of any kind ?

[Hope]

This is a disgusting post. Nobody has suggested that what is happening is not truly awful and it is not humans (not humanity) that is responsible.

Unfortunately, that is exactly what some people seem to think if their posts are anything to go by.  They want to lay all the blame on God, and effectively exonerate humanity.  Your second paragraph is a good example of this.  By the way, I chose the term 'humanity' on purpose because of this very point.  We can't exonerate ourselves from the activities of human traffickers, fraudulent bankers, corrupt politicians, pimps and madames, etc. if humanity is the sole arbiter of right and wrong.

But it is not the humans that are under discussion here, it is your alleged god of love whose actions are under examination. If your god exists and he lets 30% of all migrants to Europe drown without intervening, how is that not walking away? Your insistence that God hasn't walked away is revealed to be more hollow with every drowned body that is washed up on the shores of Europe.

So, what do you suggest he does?  Stop the naturally-occurring events whenever a boatful of migrants is dispatched from some part of the Mediterranean's shoreline?  Or are you asking him to override the freewill of the smugglers and refugees, or the dictators in the very first place?

It is all very well for you to question what he does or doesn't do because you can't do anything about these natural events even if you wanted to, but it makes you feel better to be able to rant against something you don't seem to believe in.

[BashfulAnthony]

He is called a God of love because when we were still sinners Christ died for us. He is called a God of Love because he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish but will have eternal life. He is called a God of love because He loves us. Each and every one of us. Even me. There are plenty more reasons but those are enough for me

He is called the god of love even though he allows refugees to drown in their thousands. He would be an arsehole if he existed.

An ignorant comment, laced with the usual expletive.  How infantile!

[Hope]

He is called the god of love even though he allows refugees to drown in their thousands.

And you have evidence for this claim?

[Sassy]

Why do many extreme fundies/Biblical literalists seem so scared of being questioned about their faith?

Recently I have been on a couple of fundie Christian forums where I quite politely questioned why their deity was described as a god of love, and received the bum's rush very quickly.

I suspect if instead of blindly accepting it all as true, they allowed a question or two to creep in, they might find that their belief lacked any substance! I also suspect that a lot of fundies hang onto their faith as a form of fire insurance as they are terrified of the consequences if they kick it into touch! I think that applies to a few posters on this forum as well.

I suppose they know the person asking is not sincere just trying to stir a reaction as you did. But then again we have only your word that you did ask and receive that in return. Why not post it or a link... Bums rush not here...

I certainly got a reaction, but extremists like yourself hate being challenged, don't they!

I think it is fair to say you are more challenged than a challenger.
As for myself there is nothing extreme but your accusations are extreme they have not substance to them...

The 'you must be saved or go to hell' exponents are extreme and then some, as they have no evidence to support that nastiness! I will always challenge that abusive cr*p!

Bring forth evidence that Christ saying you have a choice of heaven or hell is abusive Cr*p. You see your past and family is nothing to do with how Christ told the truth and his life here on earth.
Nothing nasty about Christ, his life or the things he did. Don't make this all about you because if your family did anything to you, it had absolutely nothing to do with Christ and his teachings. Just as Christ taught that we are to love regardless of everything people do to us
. Are you saying your sufferings were greater than Christs when he was mentally and physically tortured, flogged, beaten and crucified?
He had fed those masses. He has healed and comforted those people and their families doing good to all. You saying you have suffered more than Christ when all he did was good?

Stop blaming God, stop blaming the bible and start blaming the real culprits.
Because neither Christ, Christianity or God are responsible for whatever your family may have done to you. And you will never go through what Christ went through for you and everyone.

The fact is that judgement day will come and Christ dying to save you is a higher price than anything anyone will ever do to you. It was about showing love and care for you. How you choose to respond is up to you. But don't use your family as an excuse to insult God and the Christ. Because Christ suffered far more than you will ever have to suffer and he suffered so you don't have to carry that burden of hurt. Yes that is right. Whatever your family did is their own doing. And Christ died so you can be free of that burden and live a free life not one of fear.

The truth is that God and Christ love you, Floo. They love you just as you are.
Never forget that no matter how hurt you feel and let down by others. God loves you and Christ wants to remove that hurt and burden from you. They did not harm you they have only ever loved you...

[floo]

Bring forth evidence that Christ saying you have a choice of heaven or hell is abusive Cr*p.



If Jesus did say that, I don't believe the guy had anymore evidence to support the statement than the fundies do today! He comes over as very human in the Bible not some sort of deity.

[floo]

I found this by a poster on another forum! It is so sad that someone should be scared not to go to church, even though they have no belief!

OK - I'm mid-60s. Never as I recall going to church because I wanted to. Well - - there were some times back in high school when some girl wanted me to go and I went because I was 'twiterpated' but beyond the female persuasion, never going by my choice.

 I'm probably less sinful than most Christians, I just don't believe any of it. ANY OF IT!

 We've moved to a smaller city and it is expected that we attend so I've been told that we're going to the local church. Wife doesn't really go to church much but thinks I'm nuts because I don't believe in Adam and Eve, the Great FLOOD or the salvation of believing. By now she of the "too bad I won't see you in Heaven" phase. I don't even like weddings or funerals.

 I literally dread going. It clenches my stomach thinking I have to spend a couple of hours listening to the sermons and forking over (I don't know the going rate) 20, 30, 50 dollars a week. I will want to get in discussion with the minister (whom I've met and is very nice) or just jump up and say "this is BS!". I'll try to keep the social contacts aspect in mind but I'm really dreading it.

 Arrg

[Sassy]

Bring forth evidence that Christ saying you have a choice of heaven or hell is abusive Cr*p.



If Jesus did say that, I don't believe the guy had anymore evidence to support the statement than the fundies do today! He comes over as very human in the Bible not some sort of deity.

Explain what was human about him raising the dead.
Explain how he fed thousands of people with a few loaves and fishes.
Explain how being human he walked on water.

Why make statements about Christ and the bible which you cannot support as being true? If Christ did not do those things by the power of God, how did he do them. I know that Christ was human but God was with him and he lived a life without sin. So show us how you reached your conclusion.

[floo]

Bring forth evidence that Christ saying you have a choice of heaven or hell is abusive Cr*p.



If Jesus did say that, I don't believe the guy had anymore evidence to support the statement than the fundies do today! He comes over as very human in the Bible not some sort of deity.

Explain what was human about him raising the dead.
Explain how he fed thousands of people with a few loaves and fishes.
Explain how being human he walked on water.

Why make statements about Christ and the bible which you cannot support as being true? If Christ did not do those things by the power of God, how did he do them. I know that Christ was human but God was with him and he lived a life without sin. So show us how you reached your conclusion.

I don't believe Jesus did any of the magic tricks attributed to him as they are not credible in the least.

If he was some sort of deity surely he would have stuck around down here after he resurrected, to prove he was who his followers thought he was, instead of going skywards!

[BashfulAnthony]

Hope, you can't answer the question I put on those two forums, you always fudge it!

The problem is that often what you call 'questions' are unsubstantiated statements, and often that is then complicated by the fact that you use terminology that is, at the best, ambiguous.

WHY IS THE DEITY CALLED A GOD OF LOVE? Is that ambiguous?

He is called a God of love because when we were still sinners Christ died for us. He is called a God of Love because he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish but will have eternal life. He is called a God of love because He loves us. Each and every one of us. Even me. There are plenty more reasons but those are enough for me

Sinners? My gosh not one human is as evil as the deity depicted in the Bible, even the worst of us! What sort of evil b*stard would get a virgin pregnant and then have her son die in such a horrible way, only a very evil

Is that that one you prayed to?

[Hope]

Sinners? My gosh not one human is as evil as the deity depicted in the Bible, even the worst of us! What sort of evil b*stard would get a virgin pregnant and then have her son die in such a horrible way, only a very evil entity!

Can't you come up with anything other than this soundtrack, Floo?  You've had the situation explained several times, but you obviously haven't got the message.

[floo]

Sinners? My gosh not one human is as evil as the deity depicted in the Bible, even the worst of us! What sort of evil b*stard would get a virgin pregnant and then have her son die in such a horrible way, only a very evil entity!

Can't you come up with anything other than this soundtrack, Floo?  You've had the situation explained several times, but you obviously haven't got the message.

Nor have you, my dear, if you believe those fairy tales to be literally true, when there is no supporting evidence. The 'explanations', such as they are, don't make any logical sense!

[jeremyp]

This is a disgusting post. Nobody has suggested that what is happening is not truly awful and it is not humans (not humanity) that is responsible.

Unfortunately, that is exactly what some people seem to think if their posts are anything to go by.  They want to lay all the blame on God, and effectively exonerate humanity.

Who are these people? Certainly not atheists, because guess what, we don't think there is a god to blame.

But it is not the humans that are under discussion here, it is your alleged god of love whose actions are under examination. If your god exists and he lets 30% of all migrants to Europe drown without intervening, how is that not walking away? Your insistence that God hasn't walked away is revealed to be more hollow with every drowned body that is washed up on the shores of Europe.

So, what do you suggest he does?

How about saving some people from drowning. That would be a start.

I'm astonished that you have the nerve to claim that your omnipotent god is actually impotent.

Stop the naturally-occurring events whenever a boatful of migrants is dispatched from some part of the Mediterranean's shoreline?  Or are you asking him to override the freewill of the smugglers and refugees, or the dictators in the very first place?

Yes why not? How much free will does a drowned two year old have? By his inaction, God destroys the free will of millions of people.

It makes you feel better to be able to rant against something you don't seem to believe in.

My criticism is directed at you, not your god. Your belief in an all loving god is totally unsustainable in the face of the evidence and your efforts to patch up the damage are risible. I find it almost offensive that you Christians have the nerve to try to persuade others that you are right.

[floo]

Good post Jp

[BashfulAnthony]

Bring forth evidence that Christ saying you have a choice of heaven or hell is abusive Cr*p.



If Jesus did say that, I don't believe the guy had anymore evidence to support the statement than the fundies do today! He comes over as very human in the Bible not some sort of deity.

Explain what was human about him raising the dead.
Explain how he fed thousands of people with a few loaves and fishes.
Explain how being human he walked on water.

Why make statements about Christ and the bible which you cannot support as being true? If Christ did not do those things by the power of God, how did he do them. I know that Christ was human but God was with him and he lived a life without sin. So show us how you reached your conclusion.

I don't believe Jesus did any of the magic tricks attributed to him as they are not credible in the least.

If he was some sort of deity surely he would have stuck around down here after he resurrected, to prove he was who his followers thought he was, instead of going skywards!

Then why did you pray to Him?  Can you answer, or am I to just assume your hypocrisy?

[Sassy]

Bring forth evidence that Christ saying you have a choice of heaven or hell is abusive Cr*p.



If Jesus did say that, I don't believe the guy had anymore evidence to support the statement than the fundies do today! He comes over as very human in the Bible not some sort of deity.

Explain what was human about him raising the dead.
Explain how he fed thousands of people with a few loaves and fishes.
Explain how being human he walked on water.

Why make statements about Christ and the bible which you cannot support as being true? If Christ did not do those things by the power of God, how did he do them. I know that Christ was human but God was with him and he lived a life without sin. So show us how you reached your conclusion.

I don't believe Jesus did any of the magic tricks attributed to him as they are not credible in the least.

If he was some sort of deity surely he would have stuck around down here after he resurrected, to prove he was who his followers thought he was, instead of going skywards!

I think the intellectual and sincere person would have written that the bible declares Jesus did his miracles by the power of God. That no magic can do the things Christ did, whether it is magic from the past or the present.
Again NOT a deity the Son of God who was annointed with the Holy Spirit and Power and went about doing Gods will for God was with him.

If you cannot discuss the bible as it is written then you should not be making your own points up to discuss. Discuss from the points raised in the bible or not at all. Because your opinion bears no weight on these matters and detracts from the reality of Christ having done things by the power of God.

[floo]

Bring forth evidence that Christ saying you have a choice of heaven or hell is abusive Cr*p.



If Jesus did say that, I don't believe the guy had anymore evidence to support the statement than the fundies do today! He comes over as very human in the Bible not some sort of deity.

Explain what was human about him raising the dead.
Explain how he fed thousands of people with a few loaves and fishes.
Explain how being human he walked on water.

Why make statements about Christ and the bible which you cannot support as being true? If Christ did not do those things by the power of God, how did he do them. I know that Christ was human but God was with him and he lived a life without sin. So show us how you reached your conclusion.

I don't believe Jesus did any of the magic tricks attributed to him as they are not credible in the least.

If he was some sort of deity surely he would have stuck around down here after he resurrected, to prove he was who his followers thought he was, instead of going skywards!

I think the intellectual and sincere person would have written that the bible declares Jesus did his miracles by the power of God. That no magic can do the things Christ did, whether it is magic from the past or the present.
Again NOT a deity the Son of God who was annointed with the Holy Spirit and Power and went about doing Gods will for God was with him.

If you cannot discuss the bible as it is written then you should not be making your own points up to discuss. Discuss from the points raised in the bible or not at all. Because your opinion bears no weight on these matters and detracts from the reality of Christ having done things by the power of God.

What reality? You can't prove Jesus did any of the things claimed for him!

[OH MY WORLD!]

Why do you harass Sass at every opportunity floo? "Reality" "fairy tales" you spout. Don't make me laugh, you are the last person around here that should bring those two words up.

[BashfulAnthony]

Bring forth evidence that Christ saying you have a choice of heaven or hell is abusive Cr*p.



If Jesus did say that, I don't believe the guy had anymore evidence to support the statement than the fundies do today! He comes over as very human in the Bible not some sort of deity.

Explain what was human about him raising the dead.
Explain how he fed thousands of people with a few loaves and fishes.
Explain how being human he walked on water.

Why make statements about Christ and the bible which you cannot support as being true? If Christ did not do those things by the power of God, how did he do them. I know that Christ was human but God was with him and he lived a life without sin. So show us how you reached your conclusion.

I don't believe Jesus did any of the magic tricks attributed to him as they are not credible in the least.

If he was some sort of deity surely he would have stuck around down here after he resurrected, to prove he was who his followers thought he was, instead of going skywards!

I think the intellectual and sincere person would have written that the bible declares Jesus did his miracles by the power of God. That no magic can do the things Christ did, whether it is magic from the past or the present.
Again NOT a deity the Son of God who was annointed with the Holy Spirit and Power and went about doing Gods will for God was with him.

If you cannot discuss the bible as it is written then you should not be making your own points up to discuss. Discuss from the points raised in the bible or not at all. Because your opinion bears no weight on these matters and detracts from the reality of Christ having done things by the power of God.

What reality? You can't prove Jesus did any of the things claimed for him!

Neither can you prove the opposite, imo, imo, imo:  oops, got carried away;  must be the company!