Author Topic: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'  (Read 2377 times)

Keith Maitland

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I enjoyed this piece by Sarah Vine in the DM last Monday...  :)

OH HOW rare it is, in this post-politically correct age of ours, to encounter a public figure who dares say what they think. No wonder, then, that Edward Fox’s assertion that men are hopeless at being faithful has shocked so many.

‘In relationships, men wander naturally, and we cheat because we’re totally different creatures,’ Fox told the Daily Mail yesterday. ‘Men need to play the field and spread their seed, whereas women don’t have that same biological urge — it’s not natural.’

Seemingly oblivious to the eggshells he was trampling on, he continued: ‘Because of that essential difference, women should be more understanding if their partner cheats — but it is very difficult for all women to be tolerant and patient and understanding.’

Very difficult indeed, judging by the furious response of the self-appointed sexism police, but Fox doesn’t give a fig.

‘Men are more animalistic than these metropolitan, so-called “civilised”, “good” people,’ he added, before concluding that he was relieved ‘not to be a young man today’.

Given Fox’s age — 78 — many might dismiss his views as those of an old-fashioned roué who has no concept of how the modern world works. In reality they are the wise reflections of a man who’s seen it all and doesn’t care what you think.

And anyway, he’s right. You can dress up the male of the species any way you like, from powdered pomander wigs to touchy-feely hipster beards, but the basic product remains the same. That is to say: randy to randier, with occasional bouts of extreme randiness.

The same, as Fox points out, is not necessarily true of the female. It’s not a criticism, it’s a fact. And most sensible women understand this.

There is a simple biological reason for this inequality. Strip away the social, intellectual and political niceties and the primary function of sex, human and otherwise, remains reproduction.

In males, nature has chosen a scatter-gun approach: sow the seed far and wide and hope to score as many hits as possible. In females, the strategy is usually more considered: find someone who might be prepared to stick around — at least until the baby’s born or through the infant years.

Needless to say, it’s not a narrative that plays well with certain feminists. They’re not interested in the biology, it’s ideology that concerns them.

If feminism has done women any disservice over the years, it has been to mess with that simple biological formula by asserting that women, because they have the same levels of intelligence and ability as men, must also have the same kind of sex drive and that men must try to identify more with their feminine side in order to atone for centuries of patriarchal oppression.

The net result is a terrible confusion all round, with women having lots of sex they don’t particularly want but feel they ought to do because, well, that’s what emancipation is all about and, besides, the women’s mags told them to; and men having to do an awful lot of sympathetic listening and general empathising when all they really want is a quick fumble followed by a nice snooze.

Now, as well as misdirected feminism, we also have a new piece of idiot-think to deal with: the concept of so-called gender fluidity.

In a world where young people are being co-opted into believing that gender is less a biological imperative than a socio-political choice, Fox’s assertion of reality is as refreshing as a cool shower.

The fact is, most women aren’t as interested in sex as men. They may be to begin with, of course, and desire is by no means a male preserve.

But once the responsibilities of career, children and goodness knows what else begin to weigh on them, sex seems always to be at the bottom of a never-ending to-do list.

This is because, as well as bearing many burdens, women have a much more complex relationship with their bodies than men. And it’s easy to see why: men don’t get ripped apart by childbirth, or subjected to monthly hormonal cycles, or sucked dry by the menopause.

Men’s bodies aren’t an emotional battleground in the same way that women’s are. They are fertile well into old age, and with reason: as far as nature’s concerned, the more genetic material they manage to propagate, the better it is for the survival of the species.

In the context of marriage, this naturally presents a problem. But then marriage was invented a long time ago, when life was brutish and short.

It was conceived as much to protect females from feckless impregnators — as a way of ensuring commitment to mother and child — as it was to bind women to domesticity.

It also tended not to last very long. Until the mid-half of the 20th century, incidences of maternal mortality were frighteningly high, as was the likelihood of famine, war or plague. The world was full of merry widows and widowers.

It’s only now, when we live well into our 80s in relatively good health, that couples face spending decades together. Marry now, and the expectation is that you will be together for the rest of your lives. And that could be a very long time indeed.

Modern marriage, then, has to be about much more than sex. It’s a longer game, two lives growing together, supporting one another through the vicissitudes of life.

There is only one type of infidelity no marriage can survive: that of the heart. Everything else can be fixed. That is why destroying an otherwise happy marriage because one partner has strayed is like tearing down a house because you can’t agree on the choice of wallpaper.

However hurtful it may seem at the time, Fox is right: it is worth considering the bigger picture.

Because, when all is said and done and you’re both sipping gin and tonics against the advice of your doctor in your garden at the age of 90, will either of you care about some fleeting peccadillo?

Or will you bask in the satisfaction of a life lived to the full — together?

Sriram

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 05:48:15 AM »


I agree. Some real life wisdom finally.....instead of all the PC stuff!   

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 05:53:09 AM »
Sarah Vine is Mrs Gove. I shall print of several copies and collate them on a length of string in the lavatory.

Rhiannon

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2016, 06:00:12 AM »
Stupid woman.

(Not you, Vlad)

floo

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 08:05:27 AM »
YE GODS! >:(

Brownie

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 01:18:59 PM »
It's certainly true of many men who, try as they might, tend not always to think with their brains and frequently look elsewhere (those in a relationship), as well as being generally more interested in sexual things than women are.  However women have phases of being a bit like that, usually when they are enamoured of a person which is understandable and healthy but sometimes just thinking about it for its own sake.

A disservice is done, however, to those men who would not think of having a sexual relationship without true love and romance, and there are a lot of them.
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

BeRational

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2016, 02:42:56 PM »
It's certainly true of many men who, try as they might, tend not always to think with their brains and frequently look elsewhere (those in a relationship), as well as being generally more interested in sexual things than women are.  However women have phases of being a bit like that, usually when they are enamoured of a person which is understandable and healthy but sometimes just thinking about it for its own sake.

A disservice is done, however, to those men who would not think of having a sexual relationship without true love and romance, and there are a lot of them.

I think it's an evolutionary thing.

How many babies could a man have in a year?

How many babies could a woman have in a year?

This means that women will tend to be far more careful about partners. They have evolved to think about how good a baby the man can produce, how well he could provide for it etc.

The man could not care less (in evolutionary terms). As long as he can create more lifeboats for his genes, his genes do not care.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2016, 06:21:24 PM »
I think it's an evolutionary thing.

How many babies could a man have in a year?

How many babies could a woman have in a year?

This means that women will tend to be far more careful about partners. They have evolved to think about how good a baby the man can produce, how well he could provide for it etc.

The man could not care less (in evolutionary terms). As long as he can create more lifeboats for his genes, his genes do not care.
Yes we're all just cheeky Bonobos.

L.A.

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2016, 10:43:53 AM »
I think the key phrase in the article is:

'Needless to say, it’s not a narrative that plays well with certain feminists. They’re not interested in the biology, it’s ideology that concerns them'.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2016, 10:48:43 AM »
I think the key phrase in the article is:

'Needless to say, it’s not a narrative that plays well with certain feminists. They’re not interested in the biology, it’s ideology that concerns them'.


Yes, it's quite stunningly ironic

Rhiannon

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2016, 11:24:39 AM »
And then some.

I did consider replying properly to the article but I fear for my phone's safety should I attempt it.


L.A.

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2016, 11:42:42 AM »
The ideas expressed in the article are hardly new:

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/03/28/hogamous/
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Rhiannon

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2016, 11:45:43 AM »
So?

Thank goodness society is moving on.

L.A.

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2016, 11:57:27 AM »
So?

Thank goodness society is moving on.
Hi Rhiannon,

The point that the article is making is that today many people are ignoring the fundamental biology precisely because they believe that things have 'moved on' - whereas in fact, we are pretty much biologically identical to our hunter-gatherers fore bearers who lived tens of thousands of years ago.

I think on the one hand, we can't ignore our biology - on the other hand we don't have to be slaves to it.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2016, 11:59:34 AM »
Hi Rhiannon,

The point that the article is making is that today many people are ignoring the fundamental biology precisely because they believe that things have 'moved on' - whereas in fact, we are pretty much biologically identical to our hunter-gatherers fore bearers who lived tens of thousands of years ago.

I think on the one hand, we can't ignore our biology - on the other hand we don't have to be slaves to it.

The article is drivel because it tries to get an ought from an is.

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2016, 12:22:14 PM »
We ought to have more open marriages because of our biology?

I don't think there's any biological evidence that men are more "polygamous" than women. The claims all come from "evolutionary psychologists" - ie. made up to get published in popular media.

Humans are mostly monogamous with a fair bit of "cheating" by both sides.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Shaker

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2016, 01:51:47 PM »
We ought to have more open marriages because of our biology?
It's a genuine point. It may be wrong, but can't be dismissed that cavalierly, I'd have thought.

Besides, nobody can have an open marriage until and unless both parties to the marriage agree to it. There's no 'ought' involved. If you want one and would feel comfortable with one, have one.

Quote
I don't think there's any biological evidence that men are more "polygamous" than women. The claims all come from "evolutionary psychologists" - ie. made up to get published in popular media.
I think there's rather more to evolutionary psychology than that.

Quote
Humans are mostly monogamous with a fair bit of "cheating" by both sides.
How much of that monogamy is absolutely genuine, i.e. how much of it would exist in the absence of social mores and societal sanctions?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 01:57:32 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2016, 02:22:28 PM »
I'm not convinced about the biological imperative here anyway. In matriarchal societies the men protected the children of the tribe rather than their own particular offspring. Our society just hasn't shaken off its patriarchal nonsense, which does no favours for men any more than it does women. It's individual choices, preferences, our own feelings and a respect for the feelings and wellbeing of others that should count, not unhelpful stereotypes that shove people and relationships into misshapen boxes.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 02:25:21 PM by Rhiannon »

Udayana

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2016, 02:29:13 PM »
It's a genuine point. It may be wrong, but can't be dismissed that cavalierly, I'd have thought.

Besides, nobody can have an open marriage until and unless both parties to the marriage agree to it. There's no 'ought' involved. If you want one and would feel comfortable with one, have one.
Yes, that's reasonable. I was trying to understand NS's "is".
Quote
I think there's rather more to evolutionary psychology than that.
hmm ... what?  :)
Quote
How much of that monogamy is absolutely genuine, i.e. how much of it would exist in the absence of social mores and societal sanctions?
But "social mores" and "societal sanctions" are as much part of being human as anything else. We are also flexible, so can adopt polygamy if necessary, eg. polyandry practiced by peoples living in very harsh conditions.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Shaker

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2016, 02:37:02 PM »
hmm ... what?  :)
Well, for a start, I don't think that evolutionary psychologists see their work simply as "made up to get published in popular media."

Quote
But "social mores" and "societal sanctions" are as much part of being human as anything else. We are also flexible, so can adopt polygamy if necessary, eg. polyandry practiced by peoples living in very harsh conditions.
I don't disagree in any way, but surely we know enough by now to know that these things are almost infinitely flexible and malleable, such that this group over here has a certain set of values and this group over here has another set of values which look entirely different and both groups will regard theirs as right and true. From the viewpoint of the dispassionate observer that good scientists aspire to be - the anthropologist from Mars as the title of one well-known book has it - we can see that these things wax and wane and ebb and flow from place to place and over time even in the same place. I think that's beyond dispute; but many people lack a historical sense and see their societal/cultural values, precisely because they've been immersed in them since their exit from the womb like fish in water, as obviously right and true, which means that relatively few people think outside of that particular box.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Udayana

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Re: 'Randy to Randier, With Occasional Bouts of Extreme Randiness'
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2016, 02:38:47 PM »
I'm not convinced about the biological imperative here anyway. In matriarchal societies the men protected the children of the tribe rather than their own particular offspring. Our society just hasn't shaken off its patriarchal nonsense, which does no favours for men any more than it does women. It's individual choices, preferences, our own feelings and a respect for the feelings and wellbeing of others that should count, not unhelpful stereotypes that shove people and relationships into misshapen boxes.

Yes, I agree. Just because one's ancestors behaved or are thought to have acted in a certain way, or ones peers adopt a certain lifestyle, does not impose any obligation on anyone to conform to it.

Although, it's worth noting that conformity is one of our strongest inclinations and abilities.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now