Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer

[Brownie]

I think it is very sad when there is attack and denigration, as well as pointless, because it stifles anyone wanting to explain their belief.   Why do it?  There's no need to join a thread like this if that is your purpose, there are plenty of other threads.

This is the "Pagan Topic" and it would be very odd to have no Pagans outlining their beliefs.   As it is, we are hardly awash with them.

Another thing - Owlswing wasn't preaching so wtf?

[Owlswing]

I think it is very sad when there is attack and denigration, as well as pointless, because it stifles anyone wanting to explain their belief.   Why do it?  There's no need to join a thread like this if that is your purpose, there are plenty of other threads.

This is the "Pagan Topic" and it would be very odd to have no Pagans outlining their beliefs.   As it is, we are hardly awash with them.

Another thing - Owlswing wasn't preaching so wtf?

Thanks B - I'll add you to the drinks list - beer, wine or mead?

[Owlswing]

You're on!

)○(

(I hope I got that right!).

Where do we meeet up? It will have to wait until after Jan 26 (pension day)!

It is alright - it is more usually )O( - but heck,  it is a minimal difference.

[Brownie]

Not much of a drinker these days, Owl, but quite like mulled wine, thank you.  Here is the ready made version for lazy people like me:  http://www.continental-wine.co.uk/images/news/large/winter-warmer-large.jpg

We discussed mead on here a while ago I think, and I fancied it at the time but the ingredients include various grains so wouldn't suit me.

[Owlswing]

Not much of a drinker these days, Owl, but quite like mulled wine, thank you.  Here is the ready made version for lazy people like me:  http://www.continental-wine.co.uk/images/news/large/winter-warmer-large.jpg

We discussed mead on here a while ago I think, and I fancied it at the time but the ingredients include various grains so wouldn't suit me.

If they included grains they are NOT mead! They are an abomination called mead wine!

Look out for Moniak (dark colour) or Lindisfarne (light colour) mead - this is the real McCoy! Pure alcoholic honey!

[Brownie]

I'll look up the Lindisfarne mead because I like the name;  always intended to go to Lindisfarne one day, it looks so hauntingly beautiful.

Done (looked it up, not been to Lindisfarne in the last few minutes)!  I wonder what 'fine spirits' are?  Appropriate for this thread. I think.

Looks very nice but I don't really like spirits and it may be a too strong for me.   It might be a good drink to buy as a gift someone else so thanks for the tip, I will bear it in mind.  If I am offered a glass in the future, I'll try.

Back to spirits of a different kind.

[Sassy]

I could not have asked for a better demonstration of your overwhelming pig-ignorance of Paganism!

Condemned out of your own mouth!

Give over you just refuse like so many pagans, who want to change paganism by denying and breaking away from their own evil history of human sacrifice of their own children and such things.
Paganism has a wide and diverse definition but you have laugh when people like you claim to have the elite knowledge of paganism. The very fact you cannot even begin to understand that without creation paganism is none existent.

You see paganism can be summed up in that it worships and relates to that which is created. You can insult and you can create as much attempts  to malign as you like. But the forces of nature are part of creation. Without nature without that which is created you would have paganism to follow.  It is a simple fact and it won't change because it is those forces on which everything that paganism is about and relies on.

paganism
ˈpeɪɡ(ə)nɪz(ə)m/
noun
a religion other than one of the main world religions, specifically a non-Christian or pre-Christian religion.
"converts from paganism to Christianity"
a modern religious movement incorporating beliefs or practices from outside the main world religions, especially nature worship.
"modern paganism includes a respect for mother earth"

pagan
ˈpeɪɡ(ə)n/
noun
1.
a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.
"a Muslim majority had to live in close proximity to large communities of Christians and pagans"
synonyms:   heathen, infidel, idolater/idolatress, atheist, non-theist, irreligious person, agnostic, sceptic, heretic, apostate; archaicpaynim
"in prehistoric times, pagans used to worship the sun gods"
adjective
1.
relating to pagans or their beliefs.
"a pagan god"

Yes, I do know about paganism and the fact it holds no power.
There is only one source of power after Gods own power and that is SATAN.
Think on before you start the next argument/post because truth does not change and Christ is the Son of God the one true God who created what you believe in.

[Owlswing]

There is only one source of power after Gods own power and that is SATAN.

This coming from you is rich!


The Christian God is omnipotent!

Satan operates in God's world!

How?

Because God ALLOWS him to do so!

What an arsehole your God is!

Pagans believe in personal responsibility for their actions. We DO NOT blame a litlle red man with horns and a forked tail sitting on our shoulder telling us to do bad/wrong things. IF we do bad things it is because we made a wrong decision and we do not ask our deity to forgive us (via some bloke in a frock) so we can go out and do it again and again and repeat the process ad infinitum!

This cycle is part of the hypocrisy of Christians and Christianity.

[Anchorman]

OY! Don't lump all who claim Christ as LORD and God into one pile, Owl! Some of us, whilst recognising the uniqueness of Christ, nevertheless acknowlledge others' belief.....and the fact that paganism predated any reference to YHWH in any document.....regardless of what certain.....er......enthusiasts (for want of a less complimentary term) might say!

[Brownie]

Absolutely Anchorman (#182) and,
Owlswing (#13), don't bite.  There is an "ignore" facility on here which I came across the other day whilst looking at user control panel.

[Owlswing]

OY! Don't lump all who claim Christ as LORD and God into one pile, Owl! Some of us, whilst recognising the uniqueness of Christ, nevertheless acknowlledge others' belief.....and the fact that paganism predated any reference to YHWH in any document.....regardless of what certain.....er......enthusiasts (for want of a less complimentary term) might say!

OY don't bite until you've been bitten - I specifiically responded to Sassy! NO-ONE ELSE WAS/IS INVOLVED!

Anchorman - PLEASE IGNORE! Unnercessary comment! Apologies!

[Brownie]

I wasn't meaning Anchor, Owl, when I said, (words to the effect), "Don't bite - ignore".
Still I expect he knows what we all mean .... hope so.

We move on - onwards and upwards, hopefully.

(Just finished reading, "Midwinter of the Spirit", which is not about paganism but touches on a group of rather benign, interesting pagans in a rural area.  The Vicar's daughter joins them.)

[Owlswing]

I wasn't meaning Anchor, Owl, when I said, (words to the effect), "Don't bite - ignore".
Still I expect he knows what we all mean .... hope so.

We move on - onwards and upwards, hopefully.

(Just finished reading, "Midwinter of the Spirit", which is not about paganism but touches on a group of rather benign, interesting pagans in a rural area.  The Vicar's daughter joins them.)

Sorry Brownie, and Anchorman too!

It looks like I have made a complete 'horlicks' again!

I took Anchorman's "Oy" post to be directed at my comments and not yours.

Please, Brownie and Anchorman, could you please reference exactly which posts you are responding to? It will help dopes and idiots like me not to mix up who is answering what!

Sometimes Message Boards are not for the senile and/or the intellectually challenged!

[Brownie]

I think it was my post that misled you, Owl, sorry;  I've altered it to reference which posts I was referring to.

[Owlswing]

I think it was my post that misled you, Owl, sorry;  I've altered it to reference which posts I was referring to.

Thanks!

[Sassy]

OY! Don't lump all who claim Christ as LORD and God into one pile, Owl! Some of us, whilst recognising the uniqueness of Christ, nevertheless acknowlledge others' belief.....and the fact that paganism predated any reference to YHWH in any document.....regardless of what certain.....er......enthusiasts (for want of a less complimentary term) might say!

Name the documents and when published.

You see the references to paganism which YOU and others believe predate are just guess work.
Truth is there is NO evidence of anything predating GOD.

And you wonder why you don't have a living faith???

[Anchorman]

Name the documents and when published. You see the references to paganism which YOU and others believe predate are just guess work. Truth is there is NO evidence of anything predating GOD. And you wonder why you don't have a living faith???

How many documents do you want me to name? Archaeologically speaking, a document is a record in a medium such as stone, wood, clay tablet, etc, which records an event or makes a point. There are literally thousands of statues of Egyptian protodeities dating from c3400-3100. Rock carvings record recognisable Egyptian deities suchh as Horus, Nefertum, Hathor, Nut, Geb, etc, dating from the Naqada II and III periods shortly before the unification of Egypt c3100BC. Dockets and tags from the dyn 0 and dyn I tombs at Abydos name deities (or vinyards and granaries associated with their cults, to be exact, showing these cults to be established economic enterprises) from c3100 BC. Do you wish me to list the deities mentioned in Archaic Period texts, or the many 'Pyramid texts' of the sixth dynasty? I'm prepared to do so, should ypu so wish. If you genuinley wish to research the development of religion in Archaic and predynastic Egypt, here's a great place to start. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephantine_papyrihttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephantine_papyri

[Anchorman]

Given my previous post, Sass, I fail to understand wghy you are unable to grasp that many Egyptologists in the field have - and had - faith, and many of them were very committed Christians (saome are today!) Dealing with incontrovertable evidence of the formation of a nation-state with its own - many - religions is not in any way conflicting the belief in God - Christ Jesus, God Incarnate. Besides, there was never one overarching form of religion in Egypt - not even in classic Pharonic times. The Greeks made a hash of standardising it, and that particular chestnut has bediviled those researching the subject ever since. That's why Egypt was open to Greek thought, and indeed Jewish influence. That's why Egypt was perfectly happy to allow two (possibly three) full blown Temples to YHWH at various times. And that's why Egypt became the first nation to embrace Christianity. Openness is good, Sass. Ideas are good as well. It's perfectly possible to study both without compromising ones own faith....and incidentally not being judgemental about it.

[Owlswing]

How many documents do you want me to name? Archaeologically speaking, a document is a record in a medium such as stone, wood, clay tablet, etc, which records an event or makes a point. There are literally thousands of statues of Egyptian protodeities dating from c3400-3100. Rock carvings record recognisable Egyptian deities suchh as Horus, Nefertum, Hathor, Nut, Geb, etc, dating from the Naqada II and III periods shortly before the unification of Egypt c3100BC. Dockets and tags from the dyn 0 and dyn I tombs at Abydos name deities (or vinyards and granaries associated with their cults, to be exact, showing these cults to be established economic enterprises) from c3100 BC. Do you wish me to list the deities mentioned in Archaic Period texts, or the many 'Pyramid texts' of the sixth dynasty? I'm prepared to do so, should ypu so wish. If you genuinley wish to research the development of religion in Archaic and predynastic Egypt, here's a great place to start. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephantine_papyrihttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephantine_papyri

A far more erudite explanation than that which I have been trying to compose - Anchorman, my weary braincells thank you!

As a PS - I find it very hard to come to terms with the fact, for, in this case, fact it is, that both you and the Ultra's actually follow the same religion! You seem to be about as far apart as Donald Trump and the bare minimum of intelliigence required to sustain life!

[Sassy]

How many documents do you want me to name? Archaeologically speaking, a document is a record in a medium such as stone, wood, clay tablet, etc, which records an event or makes a point. There are literally thousands of statues of Egyptian protodeities dating from c3400-3100. Rock carvings record recognisable Egyptian deities suchh as Horus, Nefertum, Hathor, Nut, Geb, etc, dating from the Naqada II and III periods shortly before the unification of Egypt c3100BC. Dockets and tags from the dyn 0 and dyn I tombs at Abydos name deities (or vinyards and granaries associated with their cults, to be exact, showing these cults to be established economic enterprises) from c3100 BC. Do you wish me to list the deities mentioned in Archaic Period texts, or the many 'Pyramid texts' of the sixth dynasty? I'm prepared to do so, should ypu so wish. If you genuinley wish to research the development of religion in Archaic and predynastic Egypt, here's a great place to start. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephantine_papyrihttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephantine_papyri

yOU HAVE NO IDEA DO YOU/. Abrahams Father was a statue maker.
Yes he made graven images, idols...
The jews stories include Abraham telling his Father that there was only one God so why make
so many different idols and sell them.

One night Abram took an hammer and smashed all the idols into pieces but one and left the hammer with it.  When his Father came in and found all the idols smashed up he was enraged and questioned who could do such a thing. Abram blamed the idol remaining to which his Father replied... " The idol could not have done it, it cannot move or speak"
Hence idols do not prove that something is older than the true God.

Are you saying Anchorman that Abraham,Adam and God didn't exist before all the idols and false gods came into existence?

Remember if you answer YES to that you CALL GOD A LIAR.

Still think you can fool God. So which is it? God or paganism came first?

You see all writing and idols made by man. Man was made by God so God came first.
Any human could understand that.

[Anchorman]

Sass, are you OK? Of course Egyptian religion existed before the time of Abraham! If you think about it, you'll see just what a daft question that is! And since God is pre-existant, the rest of your point is moot. As for Adam? I'm not a YEC - ask them. The rest of us Christians are happy with a paradigm Adam at a point in history which is yet to be determined. That Egyptian, Mesopotamian and some Hellenic as well as Asiatic religions existed before any Scripture was written is not in dispute. That the Pentateuch is not a historical document, but a theiogical treatise heavily edited in the sixth century BC (and no less valued as theology for all that) is also accepted by most scholars - Christian thinkers as well. Now, if you want to have a thread about religion in the Ancient world, go ahead - I'll jump in. Meanwhile, try thinking before posting. Thanks.

[Sebastian Toe]

Meanwhile, try thinking before posting. Thanks.

A step to far probably!
But then if you believe in miracles.............who knows?