Three stages

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

I have written about this before. Why not again?!

We all go through three natural stages in life. Childhood, Adolescence and Maturity.

During childhood we are programmed to imitate our elders and thereby learn certain behavior patterns. Because of this tendency to imitate we also tend to idolize people, hero worship and look up to people. We also believe and accept what our elders say and go largely by authority. Accepting traditional way of life, maintaining status quo, following rules etc. are part of the programming at this stage. This stage represents a  confidence in others, especially in seniors and  in tradition which could be misplaced.

In the second stage around 11, 12 , 13 years we start becoming independent thinking adults. But because of our earlier program of imitation and accepting authority, we tend to go the opposite way of skepticism, self importance, disbelief, rejection of authority, irreverence and so on. This is another set of programs  that help us to delete the earlier childhood programs and develop independent characteristics. This stage represents a lack of confidence in tradition, seniors etc. but a growing confidence in oneself and ones capabilities. This could be misplaced too!

The third stage is of Maturity when we neither blindly accept something nor blindly reject something. We realize the value of many traditional ideas which have centuries of experience behind them. And we also realize the value of change and development. Everything is seen in terms of its value to individuals and society and not as mere habits or mere changes as an end in themselves.  This stage represents a humility and wisdom which knows what to retain and what to change. Its about balance.

These three stages are not just physical stages but are largely mental. Many people tend to retain the mental characteristics of childhood or adolescence all through their life.  Because of this some people tend to be believing, trusting and accepting authority more than is prudent. Similarly some people also tend to be skeptical and scornful of ideas more than is prudent. 

These patterns are seen in religious, cultural and social matters.

Believing blindly  in advanced age is silly and shows lack of confidence. Being habitually skeptically in advanced age is  equally silly and shows over confidence.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers.

Sriram

[torridon]

.. Being habitually skeptically in advanced age is equally silly and shows over confidence.

to the extent in which doing anything habitually is a silly thing. As we get older we tend to become more habit forming, I agree, and also we tend to become more fixed in our ways of thinking and doing. This is a natural consequence of ageing.

Having said that, compared to other species, humans tend to retain childishness into maturity, and there is a biological imperative underpinning this - neoteny.  Humans never really grow up.

[Shaker]

Believing blindly  in advanced age is silly and shows lack of confidence. Being habitually skeptically in advanced age is  equally silly and shows over confidence.

How does scepticism demonstrate over-confidence? Over-confidence in what?

You don't seem to understand what scepticism is, given that by definition it's the opposite of over-confidence.

[Stranger]

These patterns are seen in religious, cultural and social matters.

Believing blindly  in advanced age is silly and shows lack of confidence. Being habitually skeptically in advanced age is  equally silly and shows over confidence.

Questioning things shows overconfidence? Is that what you meant to say?

When it comes to claims about the 'external world', what is actually silly is accepting anything without evidence - no matter if they are "traditional ideas which have centuries of experience" or not.

The quest for evidence and continually questioning theories, trying to find their limits, and seeking to improve them, has given us science and hence technology, which work.

Unquestioning acceptance of "traditional ideas" has given us things like prayer, astrology, and homoeopathy, which don't work...

[Sriram]

to the extent in which doing anything habitually is a silly thing. As we get older we tend to become more habit forming, I agree, and also we tend to become more fixed in our ways of thinking and doing. This is a natural consequence of ageing.

Having said that, compared to other species, humans tend to retain childishness into maturity, and there is a biological imperative underpinning this - neoteny.  Humans never really grow up.

torridon,

I think Neoteny is more about physical features of childhood being retained. I am talking more about attitudes and beliefs.

Many people depending on  how oppressive their family and socio-cultural environment is, will tend to retain their childhood attitudes of adulation, blind belief  and acceptance of authority. Many others in relatively liberal environments will retain their adolescent tendencies of skepticism, disregard for authority etc.

Only some people manage to develop a mental level of maturity where a balance is maintained between the two.

[Shaker]

Scepticism is an adolescent tendency? Are you for fucking real?

[Walter]

I've returned to the board after a couple of weeks or so and its still the same old same old .
What joy!

[Aruntraveller]

I've returned to the board after a couple of weeks or so and its still the same old same old .
What joy!

Welcome back walter. You were missed. By me at least.

[Walter]

Welcome back walter. You were missed. By me at least.

thanks Trent, don't start being nice to me , you'll ruin my image!

[Sriram]

Scepticism is an adolescent tendency? Are you for fucking real?

Take it easy Shaker! Skepticism surfaces during adolescence. Even you probably developed your first hint of atheism and skepticism during your early teens.

I am not saying that skepticism is wrong. It has its uses. But habitual skepticism is an adolescent feature that some people are unable to shake off even in advanced years.....just as blind belief and adulation is a childhood feature that some people are unable to shake off. 

[torridon]

torridon,

I think Neoteny is more about physical features of childhood being retained. I am talking more about attitudes and beliefs.

Neoteny manifests not just through morphology, it is a process that operates across the entire genome and so manifests equally through behaviours.  Our obsession with sports being an example; the tendency for childlike beliefs to persist into adulthood being another.

[Sriram]

Neoteny manifests not just through morphology, it is a process that operates across the entire genome and so manifests equally through behaviours.  Our obsession with sports being an example; the tendency for childlike beliefs to persist into adulthood being another.

Ok....but Neoteny is just a word. I don't think genetic influences dictate whether someone will retain childhood tendencies like imitation, adulation and hero worship into advanced years. Like wise with skepticism, self importance and irreverence.

The arising of these behavior patterns at different stages is probably genetic, epigenetic and also due to upbringing.

It is however the socio cultural, family environment and education that probably decides how much these are carried forward into middle and old age.

[torridon]

Ok....but Neoteny is just a word. I don't think genetic influences dictate whether someone will retain childhood tendencies like imitation, adulation and hero worship into advanced years. Like wise with skepticism, self importance and irreverence.

The arising of these behavior patterns at different stages is probably genetic, epigenetic and also due to upbringing.

It is however the socio cultural, family environment and education that probably decides how much these are carried forward into middle and old age.

Well, yes, the difference between my point and yours is that you are talking at the level of individuals whereas I am talking to the bigger picture of species level characteristics.  The entire human race, in all cultures, in all times, exhibits not just paedomorphic characteristics but also juvenile behavioural characteristics which in the other great apes are restricted to childhood.  Just saying, I think understanding human nature is incomplete without this insight.

[Sriram]

Well, yes, the difference between my point and yours is that you are talking at the level of individuals whereas I am talking to the bigger picture of species level characteristics.  The entire human race, in all cultures, in all times, exhibits not just paedomorphic characteristics but also juvenile behavioural characteristics which in the other great apes are restricted to childhood.  Just saying, I think understanding human nature is incomplete without this insight.

Yes...humans tend to retain both child and adolescent characteristics in middle and old age ...is a fact.  But what we normally call wisdom is the ability to eliminate (to a large degree) these characteristics and adopt a  balanced view point on most aspects. This is what is seen as maturity.

However, some child features that we call 'childlike' and some adolescent features that we call 'youthful'.....seem to be desirable in all ages. These are more to do with spontaneity, lack of inhibitions,  exuberance and energy. 

[Bubbles]

Scepticism is an adolescent tendency? Are you for fucking real?

I think life and experience can teach you to become more skeptical