Euthanasia

[floo]

Which is why we need to be clear about what people actually believe. Given that the thread title and OP set a context of whether euthanasia in the context of dementia was a suitable action, I was trying to draw out whether anyone with dementia can give consent, following on your clarification clarification that 'he would certainly be better off dead' did not mean that you believed in involuntary euthanasia in that case.


As Udayana has mentioned, there is the possibility of declarations before any such conditions apply of what we want to happen, and while I see that that feels achievable I am conscious of the fact that I wrote my own (non binding) living will 15 years ago. It's not the sort of thing I think about revisiting and offhand, while I am sure I would say much the same thing now as well hen, I don't actually recall it clearly enough to have a high degree of certainty on some of what the statements were.

No a person with dementia could not give a valid consent imo. This is why if assisted suicide ever became legal, it should be discussed on a 'what if' basis when a person has all their wits about them.

Two years before my husband became brain damaged after his subarachnoid haemorrhage, we had a 'what if' discussion about what would happen if either of became disabled. He made it quite clear that he would not wish to live if his brain was impaired. When we were called in by the consultant and told my husband would be left drooling in a nursing home if he regained consciousness as the damage was so great, half his brain being trashed, I asked if his life support could be switched off. However, he didn't apparently fit the criteria as he wasn't completely brain dead. He has made a much better than expected recovery, but he still wishes he hadn't survived as he is unable to return to academia, his greatest interest and love.

[Bubbles]

Do you think someone with lucid moments in dementia are able to make that decision?

[floo]

Do you think someone with lucid moments in dementia are able to make that decision?

It depends how bad the dementia is I suppose. My husband's brother is sadly so away with the fairies he doesn't have any lucid moments these days.

[Bubbles]

It depends how bad the dementia is I suppose. My husband's brother is sadly so away with the fairies he doesn't have any lucid moments these days.

Dementia is an awful thing, both for the sufferer and their family.

Hopefully if he is so far away with the fairies, he is happy. 
Sometimes it must be awful to be living in the past and looking for people who are not there. Or coming too and realising what a state you are in.

Very frightening I would think, not sure many would opt for euthanasia, it might just add another "fear'.

Old people can sometimes be afraid and think the doctors are trying to polish them off anyway. It's insecurity, the fear.

The Liverpool trail or whatever it is, where they had a system of allowing people to die, sometimes otherwise healthy elderly people think they are on it, mainly because I think they are not receiving treatment ( some medicines are not given over a certain age)



Some also end up thinking people are trying to poison them.

I think there is some fear that people will decide due to lack of funds in the NHS and carers and an increasing ratio of old people, that in some cases it would be more cost effective to bump off the more needy old folks off.
Care homes are horrendously expensive.
Children can't always cope with an elderly parent who doesn't even recognise them anymore, plus their partner probably is not onboard with their elderly  inlaw moving in.

I think it is my generation ( baby boomer) that will face this issue.

We now have smaller families and we don't always live close to parents. People are going to be expected to work until their late sixties or for the younger generation seventies.

I can't see how that's going to work, unless you have an office job.

Nurses often suffer with bad backs and it's a bit hopeful that they will be up to a full nursing shift in their late sixties and seventies.
Anyone with a manual job is going to be at a disadvantage.

I know nurses who can't get an office job, because they don't have that kind of experience.

I think we are going to have a real issue in this country coming up in the future.

I wish I didn't feel euthanasia was going to raise it's ugly head somewhere, but I think it will.

You also have Brexit and fewer immigrants which might not help.

I think I would resist euthanasia for the elderly because I feel it's on the slippery slope towards bumping off people for convenience. All to easy to find excuses, needy old age is a very difficult time for all concerned. Too easy to try and avoid it, by thinking it's better to spare needy old people the indignity of all that.

So on that cheerful note this morning................
🙁

[floo]

Dementia is an awful thing, both for the sufferer and their family.

Hopefully if he is so far away with the fairies, he is happy. 
Sometimes it must be awful to be living in the past and looking for people who are not there. Or coming too and realising what a state you are in.

Very frightening I would think, not sure many would opt for euthanasia, it might just add another "fear'.

Old people can sometimes be afraid and think the doctors are trying to polish them off anyway. It's insecurity, the fear.

The Liverpool trail or whatever it is, where they had a system of allowing people to die, sometimes otherwise healthy elderly people think they are on it, mainly because I think they are not receiving treatment ( some medicines are not given over a certain age)



Some also end up thinking people are trying to poison them.

I think there is some fear that people will decide due to lack of funds in the NHS and carers and an increasing ratio of old people, that in some cases it would be more cost effective to bump off the more needy old folks off.
Care homes are horrendously expensive.
Children can't always cope with an elderly parent who doesn't even recognise them anymore, plus their partner probably is not onboard with their elderly  inlaw moving in.

I think it is my generation ( baby boomer) that will face this issue.

We now have smaller families and we don't always live close to parents. People are going to be expected to work until their late sixties or for the younger generation seventies.

I can't see how that's going to work, unless you have an office job.

Nurses often suffer with bad backs and it's a bit hopeful that they will be up to a full nursing shift in their late sixties and seventies.
Anyone with a manual job is going to be at a disadvantage.

I know nurses who can't get an office job, because they don't have that kind of experience.

I think we are going to have a real issue in this country coming up in the future.

I wish I didn't feel euthanasia was going to raise it's ugly head somewhere, but I think it will.

You also have Brexit and fewer immigrants which might not help.

I think I would resist euthanasia for the elderly because I feel it's on the slippery slope towards bumping off people for convenience. All to easy to find excuses, needy old age is a very difficult time for all concerned. Too easy to try and avoid it, by thinking it's better to spare needy old people the indignity of all that.

So on that cheerful note this morning................
🙁

Sadly my brother-in-law is not a happy man. He has turned into a very violent guy who loses his rag a lot, he was not violent until about 6 months ago. He is being kept medicated until they can find a home better suited to his mood swings than the one he is in at present.

[Bubbles]

Sorry to hear that Floo.

Hope he finds somewhere soon that he feels more comfortable in.

[floo]

Sorry to hear that Floo.

Hope he finds somewhere soon that he feels more comfortable in.

The kindest thing would be if nature takes its course very soon, he has quite a number of physical health problems too like prostate cancer, an aortic aneurysm and heart problems.

[floo]

My brother in law is now in a care home which is better able to take care of his needs. However, my husband and I still think the sooner nature takes its course the better. If my husband was like his brother, I would wish the same for him too.

Getting back to the subject of euthanasia, I was wondering whether there were any extreme circumstances where people would be prepared to take someone's life, even if they hadn't requested it?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Dementia is an awful thing, both for the sufferer and their family.

Hopefully if he is so far away with the fairies, he is happy. 
Sometimes it must be awful to be living in the past and looking for people who are not there. Or coming too and realising what a state you are in.

Very frightening I would think, not sure many would opt for euthanasia, it might just add another "fear'.

Old people can sometimes be afraid and think the doctors are trying to polish them off anyway. It's insecurity, the fear.

The Liverpool trail or whatever it is, where they had a system of allowing people to die, sometimes otherwise healthy elderly people think they are on it, mainly because I think they are not receiving treatment ( some medicines are not given over a certain age)



Some also end up thinking people are trying to poison them.

I think there is some fear that people will decide due to lack of funds in the NHS and carers and an increasing ratio of old people, that in some cases it would be more cost effective to bump off the more needy old folks off.
Care homes are horrendously expensive.
Children can't always cope with an elderly parent who doesn't even recognise them anymore, plus their partner probably is not onboard with their elderly  inlaw moving in.

I think it is my generation ( baby boomer) that will face this issue.

We now have smaller families and we don't always live close to parents. People are going to be expected to work until their late sixties or for the younger generation seventies.

I can't see how that's going to work, unless you have an office job.

Nurses often suffer with bad backs and it's a bit hopeful that they will be up to a full nursing shift in their late sixties and seventies.
Anyone with a manual job is going to be at a disadvantage.

I know nurses who can't get an office job, because they don't have that kind of experience.

I think we are going to have a real issue in this country coming up in the future.

I wish I didn't feel euthanasia was going to raise it's ugly head somewhere, but I think it will.

You also have Brexit and fewer immigrants which might not help.

I think I would resist euthanasia for the elderly because I feel it's on the slippery slope towards bumping off people for convenience. All to easy to find excuses, needy old age is a very difficult time for all concerned. Too easy to try and avoid it, by thinking it's better to spare needy old people the indignity of all that.

So on that cheerful note this morning................
🙁

Sending people to the Knackers yard because they are perceived not to be economically useful?

State run or Chappie and Winalot....or maybe Fray Bentos?