Author Topic: Love  (Read 3289 times)

Sriram

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Love
« on: May 13, 2017, 08:28:27 AM »
Hi everyone,

What is love?

In my opinion the word 'love' is one of the most misused words in English. God is love, My mom loves me, I love little puppies, I love my girlfriend, I love to go to the park, I love ice cream, I made love this evening..... and so on.

The word 'Love' is used differently in all these  sentences.

There are very different emotions that get lumped in with love.

1. We use the word love to express our need or desire for anything like ice cream or music or anything else. A simple desire becomes translated as love.

2. We use the word love to express our sexual attraction for someone.  When we feel attracted to someone like a girlfriend or our wife or husband, we term it as love. Very often it is just raging hormones and a basic need for gratification, but it is expressed as 'love'. Even the act of sex itself is often called love making!  ::)

3. We use the word love to express our attachment or fondness for someone. 'I love my mom' for example. We become attached to people because of their relationship with us or because they have helped us or have been a part of our lives for a long time. We therefore cannot imagine life without them. This is really an attachment to a person or thing that we have become habituated to, but we call it love nevertheless.

4. We use the word love to express compassion for someone or something. I love humanity or I love animals.  There is a form of love that is unconditional and does not express any need or desire in ourselves. That is the true love. Like when we help someone who is suffering or we care for some children living in another country, or we prefer to allow migrants into our country even though it may make things difficult for us, or we care for animal welfare and cannot see them suffering. This is compassion and is the only form of love here that does not express a need. It is about satisfying a need in the other person not in oneself.

Of all these, the fourth is the one which we can term as 'God is Love'. The other three are just desires, attractions and attachments.

The fourth one is a natural force that rises from us the same way that gravity arises from different planetary bodies. It depends on the spiritual level of the person. Different people will have different capacities for 'love' depending on how developed they are spiritually. Some people will  have very less of it, some will have more and some others will have great capacity for love.

What ever love we are capable of as individuals we will express the same love to everyone. Something like gravity is the same to all objects. It will not change for different people.

Of course, we can be attracted and attached and also love some one. For example, we could be attached to our parents and also love them to whatever capacity we are capable of. We can be attracted to and attached to and also love our wife of husband.   We can also love someone or something without being attracted or attached to it.

I agree that 'love' is just a word...but using it very loosely to refer to the act of sex, attractions and even attachments, can be misleading and give our needs and desires a sense of nobility that they do not deserve. 

Just some thoughts.

Cheers.

Sriram

 

floo

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Re: Love
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2017, 08:52:24 AM »
Love means different things to different people. As far as I am concerned my idea of love is liking someone a lot I couldn't love someone I didn't like. Fortunately I love my close family a lot.

splashscuba

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Re: Love
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2017, 09:46:35 AM »
Quote
I agree that 'love' is just a word...but using it very loosely to refer to the act of sex, attractions and even attachments, can be misleading and give our needs and desires a sense of nobility that they do not deserve. 

Just some thoughts.

Cheers.

Sriram
That's why context is everything.
I have an infinite number of belief systems cos there are an infinite number of things I don't believe in.

I respect your right to believe whatever you want. I don't have to respect your beliefs.

Anchorman

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Re: Love
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2017, 09:51:28 AM »
1 Corinthians 13.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

splashscuba

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Re: Love
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2017, 09:57:54 AM »
1 Corinthians 13.
is one definition. As said, context is everything.
I have an infinite number of belief systems cos there are an infinite number of things I don't believe in.

I respect your right to believe whatever you want. I don't have to respect your beliefs.

Rhiannon

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Re: Love
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2017, 10:24:05 AM »
Sriram, you really need to get over the idea that there's something ignoble about sex. Although I will concede that looking noble while having sex probably means it's not being done right.

ekim

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Re: Love
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2017, 10:33:41 AM »
Perhaps 'love' can be seen as the feeling of being at one and where boundaries appear not to exist, and 'compassion' is the expression of it.  It is 'self' - less because 'self' creates boundaries and attachments.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Love
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2017, 10:47:20 AM »
I find the idea of being selfless incredibly egotistical.

floo

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Re: Love
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2017, 11:35:45 AM »
I find the idea of being selfless incredibly egotistical.

I don't think anyone can be completely selfless. Whilst many of us try to do things to help others, I reckon we get some sort of satisfaction in doing so, I know I do.

Rhiannon

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Re: Love
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2017, 11:42:53 AM »
I don't think that's what ekim is referring to though, except maybe when he mentions compassion.

I think everyone has had moments in love where they lose sight of where they end and the other begins. To quote Rumi, 'You and I, unselfed, will be together.'

floo

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Re: Love
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 12:02:22 PM »
I don't think that's what ekim is referring to though, except maybe when he mentions compassion.

I think everyone has had moments in love where they lose sight of where they end and the other begins. To quote Rumi, 'You and I, unselfed, will be together.'

I would dislike that sort of relationship, I couldn't give myself over to someone in entirety

Rhiannon

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Re: Love
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2017, 12:12:39 PM »
I would dislike that sort of relationship, I couldn't give myself over to someone in entirety

Well that wouldn't be healthy, not if it were continual. But most relationships come with having moments of being unselfed in union with each other.

floo

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Re: Love
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2017, 12:15:46 PM »
Well that wouldn't be healthy, not if it were continual. But most relationships come with having moments of being unselfed in union with each other.

My husband and I have managed without that sort of relationship for nearly 48 years, as it isn't us.

Sriram

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Re: Love
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2017, 01:34:06 PM »



There you go. That was precisely my point.

Love  is not about relationships at all! Relationships are always about  attraction  or attachment.  Love does not depend on relationships or ones needs or attachments.

Love is just  a feeling of unity. It is not towards any one person or few people.  Whatever the love you feel towards one person, you will feel towards everyone else. It is a general capacity that you would have.

If it is directed towards any one person only, it is attachment or attraction. An emotion. Love is not an emotion. It is not a need.  It does not depend on the hormones and chemicals in the body. It is a subtle force that emanates from the innermost part of us.

All the attractions, attachments and affections that we feel in our relationships are needs in us. Love is different and that is why I have tried to differentiate it from what we commonly term as love. 

floo

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Re: Love
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2017, 01:36:57 PM »


There you go. That was precisely my point.

Love  is not about relationships at all! Relationships are always about  attraction  or attachment.  Love does not depend on relationships or ones needs or attachments.

Love is just  a feeling of unity. It is not towards any one person or few people.  Whatever the love you feel towards one person, you will feel towards everyone else. It is a general capacity that you would have.

If it is directed towards any one person only, it is attachment or attraction. An emotion. Love is not an emotion. It is not a need.  It does not depend on the hormones and chemicals in the body. It is a subtle force that emanates from the innermost part of us.

All the attractions, attachments and affections that we feel in our relationships are needs in us. Love is different and that is why I have tried to differentiate it from what we commonly term as love.

In your opinion.

Rhiannon

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Re: Love
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2017, 03:27:47 PM »


There you go. That was precisely my point.

Love  is not about relationships at all! Relationships are always about  attraction  or attachment.  Love does not depend on relationships or ones needs or attachments.

Love is just  a feeling of unity. It is not towards any one person or few people.  Whatever the love you feel towards one person, you will feel towards everyone else. It is a general capacity that you would have.

If it is directed towards any one person only, it is attachment or attraction. An emotion. Love is not an emotion. It is not a need.  It does not depend on the hormones and chemicals in the body. It is a subtle force that emanates from the innermost part of us.

All the attractions, attachments and affections that we feel in our relationships are needs in us. Love is different and that is why I have tried to differentiate it from what we commonly term as love.

Take love out of life, make relationships sterile, reserve love for the elite, enlightened few? No thanks.

SusanDoris

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Re: Love
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2017, 04:03:52 PM »
Sriram, you really need to get over the idea that there's something ignoble about sex. Although I will concede that looking noble while having sex probably means it's not being done right.
Thank you for that laugh-out-loud, Rhiannon!
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ekim

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Re: Love
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2017, 04:44:53 PM »
I don't think that's what ekim is referring to though, except maybe when he mentions compassion.

I think everyone has had moments in love where they lose sight of where they end and the other begins. To quote Rumi, 'You and I, unselfed, will be together.'
Yes, that's about it.  When those moments arise there can be a tendency to believe it comes from the other person and if that other person leaves, love leaves also.  All the emotional pop songs reinforce that idea.  If, on the other hand, it is an inner state of being which is always accessible then why do we fall out of it?  Probably because our mind thinks it has better things to do.

Sriram

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Re: Love
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2017, 04:50:11 PM »
Take love out of life, make relationships sterile, reserve love for the elite, enlightened few? No thanks.


? ? ? ? ?

Sassy

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Re: Love
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2017, 11:19:13 AM »
You make Lust, desire and other definitions out to be love.

When in truth pure love is not about the self or it's desires.

“Philia” or Affectionate Love. ...
“Storge” or Familiar Love. ...
“Ludus” or Playful Love. ...
“Mania” or Obsessive Love. ...
“Pragma” or Enduring Love. ...
“Philautia” or Self Love. ...
“Agape” or Selfless Love.

Above the "Agape" no other of the mentioned loves are within the Agape.

Eros love we know is romantic and lust.  Phileo - Friendship, enjoyment and fondness.

Selfless detracts from all the above because it is not about self or acceptance but wanting the very best for others setting aside your own feelings and wants. Christ showed that love... Ultimately showing the greatest act if selfless love giving his life. Having lived it in service to the needs and wants of mankind. He desired nothing but to do the will of God and healed and helped all who needed it.  Can we really find a greater example of love and definition of what it means?
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

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Re: Love
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2017, 11:37:52 AM »
You make Lust, desire and other definitions out to be love.

When in truth pure love is not about the self or it's desires.

“Philia” or Affectionate Love. ...
“Storge” or Familiar Love. ...
“Ludus” or Playful Love. ...
“Mania” or Obsessive Love. ...
“Pragma” or Enduring Love. ...
“Philautia” or Self Love. ...
“Agape” or Selfless Love.

Above the "Agape" no other of the mentioned loves are within the Agape.

Eros love we know is romantic and lust.  Phileo - Friendship, enjoyment and fondness.

Selfless detracts from all the above because it is not about self or acceptance but wanting the very best for others setting aside your own feelings and wants. Christ showed that love... Ultimately showing the greatest act if selfless love giving his life. Having lived it in service to the needs and wants of mankind. He desired nothing but to do the will of God and healed and helped all who needed it.  Can we really find a greater example of love and definition of what it means?

Jesus died for no other reason than he upset the Jewish hierarchy of the day. His life and death was talked up years after he died to try to make sense of it, imo.

Robbie

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Re: Love
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2017, 11:47:15 AM »
Sssassy :-

" “Philia” or Affectionate Love. ...
“Storge” or Familiar Love. ...
“Ludus” or Playful Love. ...
“Mania” or Obsessive Love. ...
“Pragma” or Enduring Love. ...
“Philautia” or Self Love. ...
“Agape” or Selfless Love.

Above the "Agape" no other of the mentioned loves are within the Agape.

Eros love we know is romantic and lust.  Phileo - Friendship, enjoyment and fondness."

Yes!
Many types of love.
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Sriram

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Re: Love
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2017, 05:49:17 AM »




My point is that the use of the word 'love' in so many different contexts completely at variance with one another is itself wrong. Ancient cultures had very different words and expressions for each of these different emotions, interactions and relationships.

The word 'love' tends to gloss over or misinterpret the specific aspects of various relationships and interactions. To use the same word to convey both compassion and desire for example, is clearly misleading.

Rhiannon

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Re: Love
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2017, 09:12:15 AM »



My point is that the use of the word 'love' in so many different contexts completely at variance with one another is itself wrong. Ancient cultures had very different words and expressions for each of these different emotions, interactions and relationships.

The word 'love' tends to gloss over or misinterpret the specific aspects of various relationships and interactions. To use the same word to convey both compassion and desire for example, is clearly misleading.

Which is why we have the words 'compassion' and desire'. Both can arise from love, however.

splashscuba

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Re: Love
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2017, 09:15:51 AM »



My point is that the use of the word 'love' in so many different contexts completely at variance with one another is itself wrong. Ancient cultures had very different words and expressions for each of these different emotions, interactions and relationships.

The word 'love' tends to gloss over or misinterpret the specific aspects of various relationships and interactions. To use the same word to convey both compassion and desire for example, is clearly misleading.
It's just semantics. Love is used in lots of different ways by people. It's only misleading if you don't know the context.
I have an infinite number of belief systems cos there are an infinite number of things I don't believe in.

I respect your right to believe whatever you want. I don't have to respect your beliefs.