Have stupid people .......

[Walter]

out bred smart people and is this dangerous for the survival of the human race ?

[SusanDoris]

out bred smart people and is this dangerous for the survival of the human race ?

This is a question that no radio, TV or newspaper would touch with a barge pole, and one can understand why. However, I do not think there is a danger for the human race, because the range of abilitly to learn has always been on a bell curve, hasn't it, and therefore even if a child is born with a quick, inquiring mind, he or she will, generally speaking, find a way of learning even if the home background is not conducive to doing so.

[Aruntraveller]

I think you need to define stupid before we can go much further than this.

If you mean people that have been failed by/denied education then probably, yes.

If you mean stupidity breeds stupidity then I am not sure there is evidence for that, although others may be able to shed more light on this area.

[Walter]

I think you need to define stupid before we can go much further than this.

If you mean people that have been failed by/denied education then probably, yes.

If you mean stupidity breeds stupidity then I am not sure there is evidence for that, although others may be able to shed more light on this area.

Stupid as defined by O.E.D.

[Walter]

This is a question that no radio, TV or newspaper would touch with a barge pole, and one can understand why. However, I do not think there is a danger for the human race, because the range of abilitly to learn has always been on a bell curve, hasn't it, and therefore even if a child is born with a quick, inquiring mind, he or she will, generally speaking, find a way of learning even if the home background is not conducive to doing so.

I agree with your first sentence, political correctness would not allow it in the current climate in this country.

but apply of the O.P. to a global scale.

[Rhiannon]

Define smart.

[Harrowby Hall]

However, I do not think there is a danger for the human race, because the range of abilitly to learn has always been on a bell curve, hasn't it, and therefore even if a child is born with a quick, inquiring mind, he or she will, generally speaking, find a way of learning even if the home background is not conducive to doing so.

I'm sorry. I don't really understand what this means. I think that you are suggesting that intelligence is normally distributed and that intelligent children will thrive despite their backgrounds. There appears to be an assumption that because of this the "right" outcome will always prevail, even though (because intelligence is normally distributed) there will be equal proportions of "intelligent" and "unintelligent" people

I suspect Walter's conception is that there are intelligent people who are "smart" and that there are intelligent people who are "stupid" - smartness and stupidity being a judgement that results from the outcomes of their actions. Who knows, Kim Jung-Ill may well have a high IQ.

As may Theresa May.

As may Donald Trump.

"Smartness" may depend on contemporaneous environmental factors. Theresa May's perception of what to do about the EU is constrained by her environment. My guess is that she is trying to arrive at a situation where she will have all the economic advantages of membership while satisfying a perception that the national will is separation from the EU. Her objective seems to be constrained by the context in which she is working - the Conservative Party.

She may well be "smart" in that context but "stupid" in a wider national context.  I think that she exemplifies the Peter Principle.

[Walter]

Define smart.

Smart as defined by O.E.D. relating to intelligence.

[Walter]

I'm sorry. I don't really understand what this means. I think that you are suggesting that intelligence is normally distributed and that intelligent children will thrive despite their backgrounds. There appears to be an assumption that because of this the "right" outcome will always prevail, even though (because intelligence is normally distributed) there will be equal proportions of "intelligent" and "unintelligent" people

I suspect Walter's conception is that there are intelligent people who are "smart" and that there are intelligent people who are "stupid" - smartness and stupidity being a judgement that results from the outcomes of their actions. Who knows, Kim Jung-Ill may well have a high IQ.

As may Theresa May.

As may Donald Trump.

"Smartness" may depend on contemporaneous environmental factors. Theresa May's perception of what to do about the EU is constrained by her environment. My guess is that she is trying to arrive at a situation where she will have all the economic advantages of membership while satisfying a perception that the national will is separation from the EU. Her objective seems to be constrained by the context in which she is working - the Conservative Party.

She may well be "smart" in that context but "stupid" in a wider national context.  I think that she exemplifies the Peter Principle.

The Peter Principle has nothing to do with my 'conception'

[Udayana]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2146752-we-seem-to-be-getting-stupider-and-population-ageing-may-be-why/

"We’re getting stupider – and our ageing population may be to blame. Since around 1975, average IQ scores seem to have been falling. Some have attributed this to the evolutionary effect of smarter women tending to have fewer children. But new evidence suggests population-wide intelligence could in fact be sinking because people now live longer, and certain types of intelligence falter with advanced age."

The Flynn effect, showing population IQ steadily rising, seems to have reversed, at least in wealthy countries. Reasons for this are still not clear though.

I suspect that it is possible to be too clever for your own good!
 

[Rhiannon]

Smart as defined by O.E.D. relating to intelligence.

So you are equating smartness with intelligence. Really? The guys who develop H bombs are intelligent.

[SusanDoris]

I'm sorry. I don't really understand what this means. I think that you are suggesting that intelligence is normally distributed and that intelligent children will thrive despite their backgrounds.

No, not 'despite'; some will come through successfully, some will not. During my teaching career, I taught quite a few who were bright and whose parents were less so. I hope, and believe that, I was able to encourage the child to pursue knowledge without impluying any slight on the parents. 

[Walter]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2146752-we-seem-to-be-getting-stupider-and-population-ageing-may-be-why/

"We’re getting stupider – and our ageing population may be to blame. Since around 1975, average IQ scores seem to have been falling. Some have attributed this to the evolutionary effect of smarter women tending to have fewer children. But new evidence suggests population-wide intelligence could in fact be sinking because people now live longer, and certain types of intelligence falter with advanced age."

The Flynn effect, showing population IQ steadily rising, seems to have reversed, at least in wealthy countries. Reasons for this are still not clear though.

I suspect that it is possible to be too clever for your own good!

not sure what you mean by your last sentence.

[Udayana]

Evolution might get intelligence to a certain point after which there is no need for it to keep increasing.

If you get to the point where you can see that life is pointless, why perpetuate it further for no reason? 

[Walter]

Evolution might get intelligence to a certain point after which there is no need for it to keep increasing.

If you get to the point where you can see that life is pointless, why perpetuate it further for no reason?

although the ratio of stupid to smart may always be same , the planet is now swamped with stupid. That is a problem!

[Harrowby Hall]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2146752-we-seem-to-be-getting-stupider-and-population-ageing-may-be-why/

"We’re getting stupider – and our ageing population may be to blame. Since around 1975, average IQ scores seem to have been falling. Some have attributed this to the evolutionary effect of smarter women tending to have fewer children. But new evidence suggests population-wide intelligence could in fact be sinking because people now live longer, and certain types of intelligence falter with advanced age."

The Flynn effect, showing population IQ steadily rising, seems to have reversed, at least in wealthy countries. Reasons for this are still not clear though.

I suspect that it is possible to be too clever for your own good!

Having taken a look at the New Scientist article, I only think it fair to say that this is misleading.

It does not mean that homo sapiens - as a species - is becoming less intelligent. It does not mean that future generations of homo sapiens will be less intelligent than present generations. It simply reports that if you measured the IQ of every person on the planet and then calculated the arithmetic mean of the total of all the scores then that mean would be lower than that from a similar excercise 50 years ago. This would be the consequence of an aging population - as individuals get older, their intellectual capabilities decline. With improved lifestyles and medical practices the ability to extend the length of peoples' lives has grown, the proportion of old people in the population has also grown.

When I was an undergraduate psychology student almost half a century ago, I recall learning about the two main IQ scales. The Stanford-Binet and the Wechsler-Bellevue scales. Alfred Binet originally developed the first to assess the intellectual development of children - with different norms for different ages. Lewis Terman extended this for adult use.  Wechsler-Bellevue was was devised for adults and later revised for use with children. Neither scale differentiated between adults of varying age.

[Udayana]

HH,

It does end with: “This is speculative stuff and it’s only a handful of papers. Anyone drawing conclusions is jumping the gun.”

[Walter]

No, not 'despite'; some will come through successfully, some will not. During my teaching career, I taught quite a few who were bright and whose parents were less so. I hope, and believe that, I was able to encourage the child to pursue knowledge without impluying any slight on the parents.

I was thinking more on a global scale SD.