Barcelona

[Robbie]

I can't say I'm sorry about that. He killed the owner of the car he stole.
Frightening to think that there are plenty of others like him & it will happen again.

The State

A four-part drama following the experiences of four British men and women who left their lives behind to join ISIS in 2015.

Channel 4

Sunday 20 August, 21.00 - continues Monday

I watched it,did anyone else? Frightening stuff.
Later - watched second episode but not sure if I can bear to watch any more.
What is good,or will be, is that it may deter young people from being radicalised, they've no idea how awful - bad, bleak, violent - it is out there until it's too late.

[trippymonkey]

We really need to be worried as to why seemingly 'normal' kids want to do it in the first place.

[Udayana]

Normal kids get all sorts of stupid ideas at various times. What help, guidance and resources do they get in understanding the best way to deal with their feelings and the rest of the world? 

I have watched this drama - but it seems very superficial - either too sympathetic to "innocent idealists" caught up by Islamist propaganda or could be seen as propaganda itself.

[Rhiannon]

'Normal' kids can very easily fall into drugs, thieving, gangs, murder. This is that dressed up as religious war.

[Harrowby Hall]

I have not been able to see the programme.

It is my understanding that this "cause" is attractive to recent recruits to Islam or to young people (second or third generation British) for whom, after a period of dormancy, religion suddenly becomes very important. In some cases it gives young British muslims a sense of "identity" that was "missing" before.

There is the enthusiasm, the zeal, of the newly converted (or the rediscovered) and this - accompanied by a testosterone high - ensures that emotion supplants rationality.

[wigginhall]

The author has been arguing that radicalization is not about religion.   However, I've seen this argued elsewhere, for example, by Scott Atran.   I suppose this makes a big difference to deradicalization programmes, although I don't know how you tackle it as a non-religious phenomenon.   

Can't find a link to it now.   

[Rhiannon]

The author has been arguing that radicalization is not about religion.   However, I've seen this argued elsewhere, for example, by Scott Atran.   I suppose this makes a big difference to deradicalization programmes, although I don't know how you tackle it as a non-religious phenomenon.   

Can't find a link to it now.

You need both approaches, surely? Religious and social education and vigilance is necessary, but aside from that I think it must be like beating gang culture generally - create better allegiances and find healthier ways of giving a sense of purpose.

[wigginhall]

Scott Atran has the idea of 'devoted actors', who as the phrase suggests,  want to sacrifice themselves to a cause. 

"devoted actors adopt values they regard as sacred and nonnegotiable, to be defended at all costs. Then, when they join a like-minded group of nonkin that feels like a family ­ a band of brothers ­ a collective sense of invincibility and special destiny overwhelms feelings of individuality. As members of a tightly bound group that perceives its sacred values under attack, devoted actors will kill and die for each other."

Of course, this can be channelled into all kinds of causes, such as patriotism.   I don't know how you rechannel it.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/08/scott_atran_on_.html

[Robbie]

Not sure I'll watchsecond ep of 'The State' tonight. I found so much of it upsetting, especially the babies killed in the hospital & beheadings. There's a limit to what i can take - still I think it is good to be shown if only to show would be converts what they're getting into!

[Udayana]

.. because Channel 4 dramas are an important source for would be converts looking for information?

[Robbie]

Dunno about that Udayana. If I was a naive idealistic young Muslim looking for a cause the realities shown of what it is really like to be out there would put me off for life; that is, if I believed what the media was showing.
I might think it was just propaganda,on other hand might believe it. Can't think myself into the heads of people who would go there - don't want to really.

It was horrible. I haven't watched the Tuesday night episode. Previous night showed bombing of hospital with dead babies, very upsetting. Later  beheadings.

Night!

[Udayana]

It's only been getting worse ... with beatings and bodies piling up.