UKIP returns with new added nastiness

[ippy]

I hate the argument that calling out Ukip's racism is sour grapes.

Well give up on the sour grapes in general then.

Regards ippy

[Sebastian Toe]

Just for the sake of argument let's agree you're right, what has that got to do with the fact that the majority of the U K voted to leave the EU,

Actually it was the majority of people who voted. A technical but important point to remember.

[ippy]

Actually it was the majority of people who voted. A technical but important point to remember.

Bloody semantics, then it's hard luck on the ones that didn't vote then, that's their problem.

ippy

[Aruntraveller]

Well give up on the sour grapes in general then.

Regards ippy

So you aren't bothered by racism?

Because you seem to be defining racism as sour grapes.

PS how would you say BREXIT is going? Bad, Really bad, awful, fucking awful or a total twatting disaster.

There are no other options available at this time.

[Rhiannon]

Well give up on the sour grapes in general then.

Regards ippy

I don't have sour grapes, Ippy, I'm scared. Scared I won't be able to find work, scared I won't be able to buy food for my kids. I'm scared that my rights will be eroded, that the environment will be damaged, that neighbours I value will be forced to leave this country, that the deals we need just to survive will mean cosying up to Trump and accepting all kinds of things that we wouldn't have needed to previously.

And I'm scared at how easily you and others like you are 'othering' people who don't agree with you.

[SteveH]

Actually it was the majority of people who voted. A technical but important point to remember.

And only a very slim majority of them.

[wigginhall]

I don't have sour grapes, Ippy, I'm scared. Scared I won't be able to find work, scared I won't be able to buy food for my kids. I'm scared that my rights will be eroded, that the environment will be damaged, that neighbours I value will be forced to leave this country, that the deals we need just to survive will mean cosying up to Trump and accepting all kinds of things that we wouldn't have needed to previously.

And I'm scared at how easily you and others like you are 'othering' people who don't agree with you.

Well said, Rhiannon.  People like Rees-Mogg scare me.   They seem to want  a low tax, low regulation tax haven, where he and his chums will rake in the dosh, and the Daily Mail castigates slackers and foreigners.  How have we got here?

[ippy]

So you aren't bothered by racism?

Because you seem to be defining racism as sour grapes.

PS how would you say BREXIT is going? Bad, Really bad, awful, fucking awful or a total twatting disaster.

There are no other options available at this time.

No I'm not a racist but at the same time I'm a realist and if anyone that posts here on this forum wishes to be a semanticist well bully for them, fine but that's a direction I will not be going in at any time.

Regards ippy.

[Dicky Underpants]

And only a very slim majority of them.

Which might have been even slimmer (or reversed) if the electorate hadn't been told outright lies. Which, wonder of wonders, now have to be explained away as if they were not categorically affirmed in the first place. Let alone problems of the Irish border, which perhaps a lot of the electorate might have been forgiven for overlooking. But it seems that the government itself only cottoned on to the problem rather late in the day - and there's no excuse for them.

[Dicky Underpants]

Well said, Rhiannon.  People like Rees-Mogg scare me.   They seem to want  a low tax, low regulation tax haven, where he and his chums will rake in the dosh, and the Daily Mail castigates slackers and foreigners.  How have we got here?

Rees-Mogg scares me too. I'm quite astonished by his rise to prominence (which is not quite "without trace"*). I suppose the brake on his rise to supremacy will be his lack of broad-spectrum popularity, but who knows? He seems to be cashing in on his image as "the English gentleman", but I find him incredibly sinister.


*This of course was once said of David Frost by Kitty Muggeridge.

[Rhiannon]

Which might have been even slimmer (or reversed) if the electorate hadn't been told outright lies. Which, wonder of wonders, now have to be explained away as if they were not categorically affirmed in the first place. Let alone problems of the Irish border, which perhaps a lot of the electorate might have been forgiven for overlooking. But it seems that the government itself only cottoned on to the problem rather late in the day - and there's no excuse for them.

Yes, when a political party lies to the electorate about its intentions in government, at the next election they can get kicked out. We dont get teh chance to vote again as to what lies we will and won't accept over Brexit.

[Shaker]

And only a very slim majority of them.

True: but in the circumcises that doesn't count for anything, do it?

You can say that there should never even have been a referendum in the first place, which is a perfectly legitimate and valid view.

You can say that it was a spectacularly misjudged gamble on Cameron's part to appease the right-wing-anti-EU side of the Tories, which is a perfectly legitimate and valid view.

You can even take the stance that even if you allow the legitimacy of a referendum in the first place, it should have been decided on the basis of a super-majority as happens in certain votes in certain places - two-thirds, or three quarters, or whatever. Which is a perfectly legitimate and valid view.

It wasn't, though.

[Aruntraveller]

True: but in the circumcises that doesn't count for anything, do it?

You can say that there should never even have been a referendum in the first place, which is a perfectly legitimate and valid view.

You can say that it was a spectacularly misjudged gamble on Cameron's part to appease the right-wing-anti-EU side of the Tories, which is a perfectly legitimate and valid view.

You can even take the stance that even if you allow the legitimacy of a referendum in the first place, it should have been decided on the basis of a super-majority as happens in certain votes in certain places - two-thirds, or three quarters, or whatever. Which is a perfectly legitimate and valid view.

It wasn't, though.

You can also take the view that it was an advisory referendum, which is a perfectly legitimate and valid view. And it was, though.

[Shaker]

But not treated as such.

[Aruntraveller]

But not treated as such.

In the circumstances I don't think that counts for anything.

Anyhow, seeing as brexit means brexit, I am still interested in knowing which of my options posters think the tories are achieving. Bearing in mind that they have always been a party of under achievers.

[Shaker]

They're Tories. Of course they're under-achieving. It's part of the deal and the definition.

[Rhiannon]

So when people voted for Brexit with a Tory government in charge, who did people think would be delivering the said Brexit?

[Roses]

Even the unpleasant Farage thinks this is a step too far for UKIP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46308160

[Harrowby Hall]

It is an admission that UKIP is truly an extreme right-wing organisation. We should not be surprised by this - there appears to be a notable shift to the right in many countries.

[Roses]

It is an admission that UKIP is truly an extreme right-wing organisation. We should not be surprised by this - there appears to be a notable shift to the right in many countries.

That is very scary.