Author Topic: Independent Scotland...??  (Read 2206 times)

Walter

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2019, 11:37:02 PM »
If they gaiin independence, and stay in, or re-join, the EU, I'll have to consider moving up there. I'm currently reading 'The Diary od a Bookseller, by Shaun Bythell, owner of the country's largest bookshop in Wigtown, down in the bottom left-hand corner of Scotia, which is an official 'Town oof Books', like Hay-on-Wye, so I could move there: loads bookshops, a literary festival, and still in the EU if that happens - couldn't be better. (I won't really move - I can't afford to - but I bet some people do. I've got a bit of Scottish ancestry, though, so maybe I'd be entitled to Scottish citizenship.)
you'd love it in Wigtown Steve H
Those bookshops are fascinating , the one you mention was a home on about 3 or 4 floors with the original room layouts with fire places and sofas but walls full of book shelves . I spent about 3 hours in there , loved it .
Infact I stayed in the Wigtown / Garliston area for about 6 weeks
One of my fave places on my travels 👍

SteveH

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2019, 05:31:01 AM »
you'd love it in Wigtown Steve H
Those bookshops are fascinating , the one you mention was a home on about 3 or 4 floors with the original room layouts with fire places and sofas but walls full of book shelves . I spent about 3 hours in there , loved it .
Infact I stayed in the Wigtown / Garliston area for about 6 weeks
One of my fave places on my travels 👍
Sounds great! "Largest second-hand bookshop", I should have said. I'll edit.
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Outrider

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2019, 09:19:04 AM »
And that is what I find very odd.  Even in a big country like India with multiple languages, religions and major cultural differences, we find it unimaginable that anyone would want independence.  Even large countries like the US or China would discourage any idea of independence by any region. 

Why in a tiny island like the UK?!

India gained independence, and within a year had split into two independent nations, with one of those further splitting formally in the early 1970s, and even into this year there are still territorial disputes.  The US had a civil war where a number of states tried to secede from the Union, and China continues to argue with territories like Nepal, Tibet, Taiwan and Hong Kong about the extents of their independence whilst arguing with the rest of the world about how far into the South China Sea their national boundaries extend.

The Balkan states have a long and bloody history of amalgamations, divisions, fractures and wars about who is or isn't part of who else.

The UK, really, isn't that different from most of those save, perhaps, that it's been politically a little more stable than some of the others.

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Sriram

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2019, 12:39:46 PM »


India and Pakistan were created on the same day when the British Raj ended in August 1947....not after a year. 

jeremyp

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2019, 06:52:39 PM »

India and Pakistan were created on the same day when the British Raj ended in August 1947....not after a year.
And it's been pretty much a disaster, although I admit I don't have a better solution.
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Sriram

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2019, 07:00:07 AM »
And it's been pretty much a disaster, although I admit I don't have a better solution.

It would have been a bigger disaster if we have been together as one country.

I am of the view that if two groups of people have major differences....it is better to let them live in peace separately rather than force them to live together. If this idea is valid in marriage or among brothers or even parents and children, it should be valid in all social groups. 

It is also valid for Scotland no doubt....I was merely wondering why there were major differences in such a small country that have lived together for 300 years....

ippy

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2019, 05:48:52 PM »
It would have been a bigger disaster if we have been together as one country.

I am of the view that if two groups of people have major differences....it is better to let them live in peace separately rather than force them to live together. If this idea is valid in marriage or among brothers or even parents and children, it should be valid in all social groups. 

It is also valid for Scotland no doubt....I was merely wondering why there were major differences in such a small country that have lived together for 300 years....

There's a lot more Scotsmen living outside of Scotland than actually live there.

We have plenty of Scots here pleased to be here in England, as long as they keep those bloody pipes of theirs to themselves it's fine with me.

My maternal Grandfather was a full blooded Scot, my paternal Grandmother was a half Irish and my family name is an instantly obviously Flemish one so I can't be saying too much.

The only trouble I have is with some that come from in or around Glasgow that have such a broad accent I genuinely cannot understand them.

All of the ex pat Scots I've ever had any dealings with here have been mostly very pleasant and amicable to me they're just another bunch of your run of the mill Brits and as such I would rather they stay with the rest of us here in the UK but then again it's for them to decide, I've no problem with them staying.

We're not adversaries with the Scots other than in our sports, politicians? Well they're always fighting!

Regards, ippy.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2019, 05:52:47 PM »
There's a lot more Scotsmen living outside of Scotland than actually live there.


What is your definition of 'Scotsmen'?

Outrider

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2019, 06:02:01 PM »
There's a lot more Scotsmen living outside of Scotland than actually live there.

Do you have any data on that? Genuinely interested on sources.

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We have plenty of Scots here pleased to be here in England, as long as they keep those bloody pipes of theirs to themselves it's fine with me.

It's not the pipes that alarm me, it's those god-awful excuses for chip-shop pies they serve!

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My maternal Grandfather was a full blooded Scot, my paternal Grandmother was a half Irish and my family name is an instantly obviously Flemish one so I can't be saying too much.

The only trouble I have is with some that come from in or around Glasgow that have such a broad accent I genuinely cannot understand them.

My mother's family are all from the Dunfermline area, but I spent time at university in Glasgow - I can sometimes struggle with accents from the Islands, but generally I'm ok.

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All of the ex pat Scots I've ever had any dealings with here have been mostly very pleasant and amicable to me they're just another bunch of your run of the mill Brits and as such I would rather they stay with the rest of us here in the UK but then again it's for them to decide, I've no problem with them staying.

In my experience Scottish ex-pats are either gung-ho 'Scotland is the greatest place on Earth' types (which makes you wonder why they left) or they hate it with a passion and can't imagine going back - I find very few who could take it or leave it.

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We're not adversaries with the Scots other than in our sports, politicians? Well they're always fighting!

For many (most?) of them, though, they are adversaries with the English - much as the English traditionally see themselves as adversaries with the French, but the French see themselves as adversaries with the Germans (who eye up the Russians etc....)

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2019, 06:08:48 PM »
Do you have any data on that? Genuinely interested on sources.


if Ippy means more people (not just men) of Scottish extraction live outside Scotland than in it then it's true but trivially so. Same is true of every European country as there will be a lot of double counting. If he means more people born in Scotland live outside it than in it, he's wrong. By a distance.

Gordon

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2019, 06:14:50 PM »

The only trouble I have is with some that come from in or around Glasgow that have such a broad accent I genuinely cannot understand them.


This might help (in the absence of a Babel fish).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Lk7qivXbw

Nearly Sane

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2019, 06:15:09 PM »

My mother's family are all from the Dunfermline area, but I spent time at university in Glasgow - I can sometimes struggle with accents from the Islands, but generally I'm ok.

In my experience Scottish ex-pats are either gung-ho 'Scotland is the greatest place on Earth' types (which makes you wonder why they left) or they hate it with a passion and can't imagine going back - I find very few who could take it or leave it.


O.
Which uni? I am a local and tbh ippy is right, some accents in and around Glasgow can be impenetrable. Never had a problem with an island accent - North East mainland on other hand...

I know what you mean about ex pats. I think that's true generally beyond Scots.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2019, 06:16:36 PM »

Anchorman

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2019, 06:18:54 PM »
It isn't one country though sririam, Scotland, England and Wales are different countries with distinct cultures even if under the umbrella of the UK government.

My feeling is if the majority of Scots want independence from Westminster they should have it but so far there hasn't been such a majority; there may be in near future because of Brexit, the majority of Scots voted to remain.

I don't know about Wales, we have someone on here living Wales who would know better than me how the Welshfeel. I remember when I was yuong hearing a lot of talk about Plaid Cymru, nationalism etc. but not heard much of that recently.

Thanks for link NS.
   



Wot Robbie said.
The UK is called a country - it isn't; it's a union of nations. In three cases that union was carried out through military conquest and political skulduggery.
Were it a voluntary union, and a complete merging of cultures, laws, etc, there would be fewer issues.
In Scotland's case, only the political structure changed.
Accordihng to the `1707 Act of union (Don't start me on how that was created), the Scots and English parliaments were to dissolve and create an entirley new structure in an 'equal and incorporating union'.
What happened was that the juggernaut of Westminster blithely ignored the act as soon as it was passed, and continued as the English Parliament with bits added on.
Scottish legal, educational and cultural, as well as religious life was not merged into the UK - thus creating rallying points of opposition which have, over the centuries, kept the flame of national identity alive.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2019, 06:24:35 PM »

Its been one country for more than 300 years...!! Still not integrated culturally? And its not really a huge country...! 
   

The legal educational, religious and cultural identity of Scotland were never integrated into the UK after 1707.
Scots language persists in most of the country, and Gaelic remains  apotent cultural focus in the areas in which it was spoken.
Devolution in 1999 gave the reconvened Parliamenht control over health, law, tourism, education, nthe arts, etc, thus ensuring there will be no further integration.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

ippy

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2019, 08:40:17 AM »
This might help (in the absence of a Babel fish).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Lk7qivXbw

Cheers Gordon, I've done a lot of work for him at his place in West Hampsted, (London),another ex-pat Scot, it was a while ago now 78-79 thereabouts, now, I could easily understand him in spite of his handicap.

Regards, ippy.

Outrider

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2019, 08:48:36 AM »
Which uni? I am a local and tbh ippy is right, some accents in and around Glasgow can be impenetrable. Never had a problem with an island accent - North East mainland on other hand...

Glasgow in the early nineties - stayed in one of the brownstone townhouses in Hillhead and studied Aeronautical Engineering at the big grey concrete monstrosity bolted onto the back of the main university building down by Kelvingrove Park.

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2019, 09:14:25 AM »
Glasgow in the early nineties - stayed in one of the brownstone townhouses in Hillhead and studied Aeronautical Engineering at the big grey concrete monstrosity bolted onto the back of the main university building down by Kelvingrove Park.

O.
I graduated in 1986 from it. It really is a monstrosity that building.

Anchorman

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Re: Independent Scotland...??
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2019, 09:20:09 AM »
OK....to aid your memories, a song written and sung by a friend of mine (aye, the same one who wrote 'The jeely piece song') https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It5MsXhsZas
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."