What are the Key components of the universe

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What are the key components of the universe?

[Sebastian Toe]

...Do you mean the ones which unlock the secrets?

[Outrider]

We currently do not have sufficient information to be confident of an answer, I'd suggest.  Whilst we have the four 'fundamental' forces documented, we currently can't reconcile them into a single explanation that accounts for all the variations we see, which suggests that something may be missing from our current understanding.

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

...Do you mean the ones which unlock the secrets?

Sounds good!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Entropy......central character?

[Outrider]

Entropy......central character?

Entropy isn't a force or a mechanism, it's an observation of the effect of other forces on matter and energy over time.

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

We currently do not have sufficient information to be confident of an answer, I'd suggest.  Whilst we have the four 'fundamental' forces documented, we currently can't reconcile them into a single explanation that accounts for all the variations we see, which suggests that something may be missing from our current understanding.

O.

Explanation aside they sound pretty key.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Entropy isn't a force or a mechanism, it's an observation of the effect of other forces on matter and energy over time.

O.

Its in the universe Outrider. As Alkalili put it. It's why there are things and why things are dynamic.Are you just habitually disagreeing with me by any chance?

[Stranger]

What are the key components of the universe?

What do you mean by a 'key' component? Our currently tested theories describe space-time/gravity (general relativity) and all the other forces and particles (quantum field theory). Unfortunately unifying them is proving rather difficult.

[ProfessorDavey]

What do you mean by a 'key' component?

Vlad starting this thread on the basis that he didn't like the way the 'Disproof of god' discussion was going. He is trying to pivot this back into the discussion on a 'necessary entity' for the universe (which he posits is god).

Take care not to feed the troll.

[Outrider]

Explanation aside they sound pretty key.

Sorry, I don't think I made the point I was aiming for - to our current understanding they are underlying principles, but it may transpire that they are 'merely' manifestations of underlying forces - at which point they wouldn't be the 'key' elements so much as significant effects? At least, that's how I'm interpreting the initial question.

Its in the universe Outrider. As Alkalili put it. It's why there are things and why things are dynamic.Are you just habitually disagreeing with me by any chance?

No, I have a point - entropy isn't a force or an entity working on the universe, it's our description of the aftermath of other forces and effects working on the universe.  It's a little like observing the pattern in wool in a jumper and saying that's a fundamental part of the jumper; the structure of the wool and the formation of the knots are the fundamental part, the pattern is something that emerges from the interaction of those.  Similarly, entropy is something that emerges from other activities.

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad starting this thread on the basis that he didn't like the way the 'Disproof of god' discussion was going. He is trying to pivot this back into the discussion on a 'necessary entity' for the universe (which he posits is god).

Take care not to feed the troll.

I started this thread to separate the confusion you introduced between metaphysics, philosophy,  and science.
Out of the spew there was a tasty bit of carrot hence this thread.

[Stranger]

Entropy......central character?

Entropy is the (statistical) tendency for systems to move to larger regions of phase space. Low entropy in the past was necessary for the universe to be the way it is but it's hardly a component as such. No part of the universe consists of entropy, it is a property of systems.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad starting this thread on the basis that he didn't like the way the 'Disproof of god' discussion was going. He is trying to pivot this back into the discussion on a 'necessary entity' for the universe (which he posits is god).

Take care not to feed the troll.

Actually I like the way it is going very much. Since my suggestion was that the properties of the necessary being were more God like. You actually introduced another trait. Cooperation or truce between maximally potent entities.

In any case you were discussing components of machinery within the universe and that ,mi old fruit is science and technology.

I look forward to discuss the new pantheon you have created on the other thread though.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Entropy is the (statistical) tendency for systems to move to larger regions of phase space. Low entropy in the past was necessary for the universe to be the way it is but it's hardly a component as such. No part of the universe consists of entropy, it is a property of systems.

OK what sort of thing would you describe as a component?

[Stranger]

OK what sort of thing would you describe as a component?

Well, it was you who asked the question. I took it to mean the things that the universe consists of (see #8).

If you mean in some other sense, then you'll have to explain.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Well, it was you who asked the question. I took it to mean the things that the universe consists of (see #8).

If you mean in some other sense, then you'll have to explain.

Hey, hey, hey.....I’ve no axe to grind here. If you think that something like entropy isn’t a component you need to put us straight and put us on the straight and arrow regards what is a component.

[ProfessorDavey]

In any case you were discussing components of machinery within the universe and that ,mi old fruit is science and technology.

Until or unless you are able to demonstrate that there are entities that exist outside our (or any) universe then any entity will be a part of the universe. What we are discussing here and on the other thread is which parts of that universe (which until you demonstrate that there are things that exist outside the universe is the only reasonable thing to do) are necessary entities, in other words if they did not exist nor could the universe.

[Stranger]

Hey, hey, hey.....I’ve no axe to grind here. If you think that something like entropy isn’t a component you need to put us straight and put us on the straight and arrow regards what is a component.

Again, see #8.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What we are discussing here and on the other thread is which parts of that universe (which until you demonstrate that there are things that exist outside the universe is the only reasonable thing to do) are necessary entities, in other words if they did not exist nor could the universe.

They may very well not be external to the universe and there might even be some sense in which they are a part of the universe.

But.......

They are neither contingent parts of the universe or parts of the contingent universe.

[ProfessorDavey]

They may very well not be external to the universe and there might even be some sense in which they are a part of the universe.

But.......

They are neither contingent parts of the universe or parts of the contingent universe.

Why do they need to be neither contingent parts of the universe or parts of the contingent universe?

And you have a further problem - if these entities are neither contingent parts of the universe or parts of the contingent universe then they need to be able to exist even if the universe, or universes don't exist. So we are back to the onus being on you to demonstrate that anything can exist outside of a universe.