British or English?

[SqueakyVoice]

(Partially read/ partially skimmed) https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/04/luke-littler-darts-championship-pdc-british-sport

Luke Littler was glorious in defeat, in a sport the snobs hate – what could be more British than that?

To me that does sound a bit more British, but hopefully, with an English sense or eccentricity.
Is anyone proud if being British? Or proud of being English? I can think of a few reasons for both myself (British & Irish Lions/ English cricket for starters.)

[SteveH]

I like being both British and English, and I think one's nationality is something to celebrate, but being proud of where you were born is illogical. It isn't something you've achieved.

[Nearly Sane]

I like being both British and English, and I think one's nationality is something to celebrate, but being proud of where you were born is illogical. It isn't something you've achieved.

For the same reason thar it's illogical to feel proud of where you were born, it seems illogical to celebrate one's nationality.


I think in reply to the OP, on something like darts it is very difficult to seperate out into different countries of the UK. It's similar to snooker for that, and part of it is that, as the article sort of refers to is class.

[SteveH]

For the same reason thar it's illogical to feel proud of where you were born, it seems illogical to celebrate one's nationality.

I can celebrate England without thinking that England is better than any other country, and without ignoring the dark side of it, and can understand a French person's desire to celebrate France, a Russian's to celebrate Russia, etc., with the same caveats.

[Nearly Sane]

I can celebrate England without thinking that England is better than any other country, and without ignoring the dark side of it, and can understand a French person's desire to celebrate France, a Russian's to celebrate Russia, etc., with the same caveats.

But why do  it since you are only doing so because of an accident of birth?

[SteveH]

Do you HAVE to argue the toss about EVERYTHNG? there's plenty to celebrate about Britain/England, as well as much to regret, and that's true of any country. In the case of Bringland, we can celebrate Morris dancing, beer, tea, cheese, irony, emotional restraint, democracy, Shakespeare, etc., and regret the slave trade, the Tory party, imperialism, etc.

[Nearly Sane]

Do you HAVE to argue the toss about EVERYTHNG? there's plenty to celebrate about Britain/England, as well as much to regret, and that's true of any country. In the case of Bringland, we can celebrate Morris dancing, beer, tea, cheese, irony, emotional restraint, democracy, Shakespeare, etc., and regret the slave trade, the Tory party, imperialism, etc.

And the only reason you seem to be celebrating/regretting is the same illogicality you call out for people feeling proud to be English. It feels to me that the two are effectively the same but just described differently, and one description you like better.

[jeremyp]

I'll just leave this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOoStY95YZc

[SteveH]

WS Gilbert on jingoism:


[All]
He is an Englishman!

[Boatswain]
He is an Englishman!
For he himself has said it,
And it's greatly to his credit,
That he is an Englishman!

[All]
That he is an Englishman!

[Boatswain]
For he might have been a Roosian,
A French, or Turk, or Proosian,
Or perhaps Itali-an!


[All]
Or perhaps Itali-an!

[Boatswain]
But in spite of all temptations
To belong to other nations,
He remains an Englishman!
He remains an Englishman!

[All]
For in spite of all temptations
To belong to other nations,
He remains an Englishman!
He remains an Englishman!