Vatican reveals new rules for the supernatural

[Nearly Sane]

Laughable


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cekl9jd883yo

[Gordon]

It's fucking nuts - it seems they take the 'Miracle of the Sun' nonsense seriously.

I'm not generally inclined to point and laugh at the antics of idiots - but in this case I'll make an exception.

[Nearly Sane]

It's fucking nuts - it seems they take the 'Miracle of the Sun' nonsense seriously.

I'm not generally inclined to point and laugh at the antics of idiots - but in this case I'll make an exception.

Some details on the RCC's take on the 'miracle'of the sin here


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

[Alan Burns]

Some miraculous apparitions still defy any scientific explanation - such as:

https://www.catholiccompany.com/magazine/the-miraculous-image-of-our-lady-of-guadalupe/

[Nearly Sane]

Some miraculous apparitions still defy any scientific explanation - such as:

https://www.catholiccompany.com/magazine/the-miraculous-image-of-our-lady-of-guadalupe/

Leaving aside the mainly anecdotal hearsay claims, having something that you don't know how it is produced gives you a 'don't know' answer. It's not justification for claims of the miraculous because you haven't got a methodology to show that.

And to go back to the Miracle of the Sun covered earlier, do you think that happened?

[SteveH]

Some miraculous apparitions still defy any scientific explanation - such as:

https://www.catholiccompany.com/magazine/the-miraculous-image-of-our-lady-of-guadalupe/

Claiming phenomena as miraculous because we don't have a natural explanation at the moment is gapism, which is bad theology as well as bad science. As Bonhoeffer pointed out, if there's a God at all, he/she is responsible for the stuff we can explain scientifically, as well as the stuff we can't (yet).

[Gordon]

Some miraculous apparitions still defy any scientific explanation - such as:

https://www.catholiccompany.com/magazine/the-miraculous-image-of-our-lady-of-guadalupe/

Reads like nonsense, Alan, from a biased source: got any independent studies that set out these scientific explanations that you say have been defied. For example, the very first claim that "The image is proven to not be painted by human hands" - so where is the proof of a non-human artist?

Then there is the claim that "A doctor once heard a heartbeat coming from the image when he placed a stethoscope over the womb" - I'm just wondering why any reputable medic would apply a stethoscope to a painting, since paintings contain no biology.

Sounds like theobollocks to me.

[Alan Burns]

Leaving aside the mainly anecdotal hearsay claims, having something that you don't know how it is produced gives you a 'don't know' answer. It's not justification for claims of the miraculous because you haven't got a methodology to show that.

And to go back to the Miracle of the Sun covered earlier, do you think that happened?

There could well be a natural explanation for what the eye witnesses claimed to see, but the miraculous aspect is the timing.
An unusual event was predicted, and it happened with no evidence of human causation.

[Nearly Sane]

There could well be a natural explanation for what the eye witnesses claimed to see, but the miraculous aspect is the timing.
An unusual event was predicted, and it happened with no evidence of human causation.

So why wasn't it seen round the world?

[Maeght]

Some miraculous apparitions still defy any scientific explanation - such as:

https://www.catholiccompany.com/magazine/the-miraculous-image-of-our-lady-of-guadalupe/

God of the gaps.

[Alan Burns]

So why wasn't it seen round the world?

The natural explanation for the miracle of the sun could be due to unusual local atmospheric conditions.  The miraculous aspect being the timing and the location which were predicted beforehand, coupled with the numerous eye witness accounts.

[Nearly Sane]

The natural explanation for the miracle of the sun could be due to unusual local atmospheric conditions.  The miraculous aspect being the timing and the location which were predicted beforehand, coupled with the numerous eye witness accounts.

So the sun wasn't moving about in the sky?

[ProfessorDavey]

The natural explanation for the miracle of the sun could be due to unusual local atmospheric conditions.  The miraculous aspect being the timing and the location which were predicted beforehand, coupled with the numerous eye witness accounts.

All sorts of people predict all sorts of things all the time. In most cases these predictions do not happen and everyone quietly forgets that the prediction was ever made. By chance there will occasionally be predictions that do come to pass - not because the prediction was actually prescient but because a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day.

How many other predicted miracles have the Vatican quietly forgotten because they didn't come to pass. Let's not forget that in the early years of christianity it was confidently predicted that Jesus would return within their lifetimes. Hmm.

[Nearly Sane]

All sorts of people predict all sorts of things all the time. In most cases these predictions do not happen and everyone quietly forgets that the prediction was ever made. By chance there will occasionally be predictions that do come to pass - not because the prediction was actually prescient but because a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day.

How many other predicted miracles have the Vatican quietly forgotten because they didn't come to pass. Let's not forget that in the early years of christianity it was confidently predicted that Jesus would return within their lifetimes. Hmm.

And what was the actual prediction in this case?