Houses of Parliament are crumbling

[Hope]

Following a 3 year review of the condition of the Palace of Westminster, today should see a decision on what to do about the place.  A full restoration could cost around £3 billion - up to double that if MPs decide to stay put during the work.

Several options have been put forward, which include staying put, upping sticks to Methodist Central Hall or the Queen Elizabeth Centre on South Bank; a wholesale shift to Birmingham, or a even a travelling Parliament.

Question 1: is £3b a sensible expenditure on this edifice?

Question 2: which of the alternatives listed above would you favour - or do you have an additional one?

[Aruntraveller]

An additional one:

Move them into a disused call centre.

Pay them the minimum wage.

Deny them toilet breaks.

Ensure any overtime is unpaid.

Make sure that the heating/AC breaks down on a regular basis.

Film every minute a la Big Brother.

[Udayana]

Work from home using skype conf calls as needed!

[Shaker]

Work from home using skype conf calls as needed!

That would be tricky - they'd have to decide which of their homes to work from ...

[OH MY WORLD!]

Of course you will repair the buildings. Should have been done long ago. Unless you all are into letting your history disappear. I mean, you preserve a stone circle in a field that nobody needs and only gets used by some pagans but are going to have a fit over repairing your parliament? Come on, if Canada can do it so can you. Don't get me wrong I've been to that big stone circle of yours, it kept my attention for about 15 minutes.

[Harrowby Hall]

Following a 3 year review of the condition of the Palace of Westminster, today should see a decision on what to do about the place.  A full restoration could cost around £3 billion - up to double that if MPs decide to stay put during the work.

Several options have been put forward, which include staying put, upping sticks to Methodist Central Hall or the Queen Elizabeth Centre on South Bank; a wholesale shift to Birmingham, or a even a travelling Parliament.

Question 1: is £3b a sensible expenditure on this edifice?

Question 2: which of the alternatives listed above would you favour - or do you have an additional one?

We've done this one before. Udayana started a thread called "Crumbling Commons" on March 6.

[Hope]

We've done this one before. Udayana started a thread called "Crumbling Commons" on March 6.

But that thread didn't have all the costs, etc., iirc - or the alternative sitings.

[Sassy]

Following a 3 year review of the condition of the Palace of Westminster, today should see a decision on what to do about the place.  A full restoration could cost around £3 billion - up to double that if MPs decide to stay put during the work.

Several options have been put forward, which include staying put, upping sticks to Methodist Central Hall or the Queen Elizabeth Centre on South Bank; a wholesale shift to Birmingham, or a even a travelling Parliament.

Question 1: is £3b a sensible expenditure on this edifice?

Question 2: which of the alternatives listed above would you favour - or do you have an additional one?

What is the worst thing that can happen... It crumbles whilst they are all inside...

[Hope]

What is the worst thing that can happen... It crumbles whilst they are all inside...

Are human lives of such little account to you, Sass?  Remember that, in addition to the 650-odd MPs who might be inside at the time there will be a large number of employees of the place who are innocent of all the distasteful things that MPs get accused of, rightly or wrongly.

[Harrowby Hall]

There is a possibility (says he, think the odds will be less favourable than a lottery win with the new ten extra balls) that UK governance in the 21st century may be reviewed.

A new Parliament building, a new location, a new seating arrangement (not a parody of a medieval chapel), a new voting system and the abolition of Prime ministers Questions.

The marvellous (and I mean that) Barry/Pugin building could be renovated and turned into a museum of democracy or university or some other appropriate use.

[Rhiannon]

There is a possibility (says he, think the odds will be less favourable than a lottery win with the new ten extra balls) that UK governance in the 21st century may be reviewed.

A new Parliament building, a new location, a new seating arrangement (not a parody of a medieval chapel), a new voting system and the abolition of Prime ministers Questions.

The marvellous (and I mean that) Barry/Pugin building could be renovated and turned into a museum of democracy or university or some other appropriate use.

£3 billion on renovating a building to turn it into a museum? Don't think so.

The only way to make it work would be to have the public parts as a museum/arts centre/whatever and turn the bulk of the building over to the private sector for offices or apartments.

[Harrowby Hall]

There is a possibility (says he, think the odds will be less favourable than a lottery win with the new ten extra balls) that UK governance in the 21st century may be reviewed.

A new Parliament building, a new location, a new seating arrangement (not a parody of a medieval chapel), a new voting system and the abolition of Prime ministers Questions.

The marvellous (and I mean that) Barry/Pugin building could be renovated and turned into a museum of democracy or university or some other appropriate use.

£3 billion on renovating a building to turn it into a museum? Don't think so.

The only way to make it work would be to have the public parts as a museum/arts centre/whatever and turn the bulk of the building over to the private sector for offices or apartments.

OK - I'll accept that. My real point - which I failed to express adequately - is that this is a building which is central to the concept of and expression of liberal democracy, is rightly a World Heritage site and is therefore deserving of preservation. The alternative would be akin to accepting that ISIS is doing a good job modernising the Middle East

[Rhiannon]

Yes, I don't think there is any question about the need to preserve the building. The question isn't whether to do it but for what purpose. Having a World Heritage Site turned into flats for the uber-rich might be a bit much but it's an obscene amount of money to spend on a museum or seat of learning, however worthy. Arguably spending that kind of money is only acceptable if it is on something really major - on the place where the governance of the country is centred for example.

Shame the building isn't fit for purpose then.

[Hope]

If they are doing a root and branch renovation - and fewer MPs are anticipated, could the Commons chamber, for instance, be redesigned so as to face the Speaker's Chair and thus reduce the oppositional layout?  Or is it too small?

[Harrowby Hall]

If they are doing a root and branch renovation - and fewer MPs are anticipated, could the Commons chamber, for instance, be redesigned so as to face the Speaker's Chair and thus reduce the oppositional layout?  Or is it too small?

It is too small. It is also long and narrow.

Its shape resembles the original St Stephen's Chapel in the original Palace of Westminster. The members sat in choir stalls facing each other. Such a layout encourages the adversarial nature of Commons activity. When the chamber was rebuilt after being destroyed during WWII, Churchill - among others - campaigned for the character of the bombed chamber to be retained.

It's continued use as the debating chamber for an elected representative democracy remains a 19th century solution for a 21st century problem. Its shortcomings are manifest in the despicable infantile display known as Prime Ministers Questions.

[Hope]

Its shortcomings are manifest in the despicable infantile display known as Prime Ministers Questions.

Having watched First Minister's Questions from the Senedd in Cardiff, I'm not sure that the layout is the cause of the 'infantile display'.  AMs are no better.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

A good start would be to replace the statue of King Richard I with a statue of Simon De Montfort.

[Shaker]

Do you really think we need a statue of a brutal and bloodthirsty anti-Semite?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Do you really think we need a statue of a brutal and bloodthirsty anti-Semite?

If it were not for De Montfort we would not have had a Parliament. It's easy to pick holes in the characters of the long dead who lived in a different world to our own.

[Shaker]

It is, and there's still no reason to erect a statue to them.

[Jack Knave]

Following a 3 year review of the condition of the Palace of Westminster, today should see a decision on what to do about the place.  A full restoration could cost around £3 billion - up to double that if MPs decide to stay put during the work.

Several options have been put forward, which include staying put, upping sticks to Methodist Central Hall or the Queen Elizabeth Centre on South Bank; a wholesale shift to Birmingham, or a even a travelling Parliament.

Question 1: is £3b a sensible expenditure on this edifice?

Question 2: which of the alternatives listed above would you favour - or do you have an additional one?

What does a wholesale shift to Birmingham mean. Would that be temporary or for good?

I think they should move out for good and Westminster should become some kind of stately home affair - visitors, conference rooms etc. In fact if they convert some of it into conference rooms at the start they could raise some money whilst the works are going on. I'm sure the big corporations would pay top dollar to hold their conferences in such an historical building.

[Harrowby Hall]

Do you really think we need a statue of a brutal and bloodthirsty anti-Semite?

We already have it. It stands outside the Palace of Westminster. Richard barred all jews from his coronation and had then stripped and beaten. Admittedly, he did take action to halt the massacre of Jews and burning of their houses which followed.

Did Simon do any worse? He expelled a Jewish community from Leicester. Both men were typical of their time. Simon was a central figure in the establishment of a Parliament. His claim to a statue is greater than that of Richard.

Richard reigned for nearly 10 years but only spent about six months in England. He just used his kingdom as a cash cow to support his crusading adventures.

It is almost certain that he did not attend the marriage of Robin Hood to Maid Marion!

[OH MY WORLD!]

Shaker,
Well I for one am in favour of removing every statue of Karl Marx in existence. How can we leave them standing in the memory of a man who let his children live and die in poverty because he was too busy wasting his days reading at the British Museum instead of going out and getting a job like a real parent would?

[Rhiannon]

A good start would be to replace the statue of King Richard I with a statue of Simon De Montfort.

Well that's certainly a new idea as far as I'm concerned. 

[BashfulAnthony]

Shaker,
Well I for one am in favour of removing every statue of Karl Marx in existence. How can we leave them standing in the memory of a man who let his children live and die in poverty because he was too busy wasting his days reading at the British Museum instead of going out and getting a job like a real parent would?

Marx was a hypocrite.  He never had a "proper" job, being funded to a large degree by Engels.  He died and left £250: which is some £12,000 at today's values  -  considerably more by some calculations.  So much for the anti-capitalist!