'Illegal' immigrant

[dadvokat]

The term "illegal immigrant" should, perhaps, be replaced by "illegal entrant".

It does not matter, really, what they are called, the really important thing is that there are far too many of them, this being due to other EU countries failing to implement EU law because they know that these people are only "passing through" their countries on the way to the UK.

Except that the numbers coming to say teh UK are a sixth of those in Germany and a quarter of those in Italy and half of those in Sweden - can I suggest you stop reading the Mail?

Can I suggest you request your nationalist friends to lay on coaches for these illegal  migrants to be ferried to Scotland? Bleeding heart nationalist liberals love these illegals as long as they stay saaf of the border. Sheesh...

[cyberman]

Anyone got a better plan for how to make sure pensioners don't starve?

Yeah! Make MP's try to live on £ 154 a week!

It might help a bit, for sure. That would save the coffers about £43.5 million a year by my reckoning. Would that sort the pensions gap do you think?

[Owlswing]

Anyone got a better plan for how to make sure pensioners don't starve?

Yeah! Make MP's try to live on £ 154 a week!

It might help a bit, for sure. That would save the coffers about £43.5 million a year by my reckoning. Would that sort the pensions gap do you think?

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

[Hope]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

[BashfulAnthony]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

It's pretty slim thinking to try and make a case for MP's being under-paid.  Firstly, they do the job from choice, so they know what is involved.  Secondly, they are not badly paid, and they are in receipt of many "perks."  The Government has put a pay freeze on public sector workers, for the next x years. and the majority are not in the same pay bracket of MP's to begin with.  As to some MP's giving the award to charity, then they clearly can manage without a rise.  In the last Government, out of 31 Cabinet members, 29 wre millionaires, or multi-millionaires.  The present lot are not likely to be any less well-off.  My heart bleeds for them!!

[Nearly Sane]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

As someone who has defended the recent pay rise awarded to MPs, I feel I have to point out that the changes to other conditions were mainly around pension arrangements and while overall not far off fiscally neutral did not affect the allowances for staff and MPs take home salary has not been affected in the manner you have declared.

[BashfulAnthony]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

As someone who has defended the recent pay rise awarded to MPs, I feel I have to point out that the changes to other conditions were mainly around pension arrangements and while overall not far off fiscally neutral did not affect the allowances for staff and MPs take home salary has not been affected in the manner you have declared.

They already have extremely generous pension provisions, so they still benefit more than the rest of us.

[Nearly Sane]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

As someone who has defended the recent pay rise awarded to MPs, I feel I have to point out that the changes to other conditions were mainly around pension arrangements and while overall not far off fiscally neutral did not affect the allowances for staff and MPs take home salary has not been affected in the manner you have declared.

They already have extremely generous pension provisions, so they still benefit more that the rest of us.

be that as it may, I would suggest it is better to talk about such issues while being correct on facts. The overall package that MPs get is what is being discussed so to concentrate on the increase in one part and not acknowledge the other changes would be either ignorance or bias. 


I would suggest also that your usual jealousy over money is showing again.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I would suggest also that your usual jealousy over money is showing again.

The old ''Virtue in the monied''/''Christianity as class envy'' fallacies?

[Nearly Sane]

I would suggest also that your usual jealousy over money is showing again.

The old ''Virtue in the monied''/''Christianity as class envy'' fallacies?

No, nothing of the kind. I didn't say anything about either. I am not making a generalisation or referring to Bash as a Christian, just an individual. You are a lazy poster that indulges in misrepresentation. Thus does not mean I think Christians are exemplified by you. Just that that applies to you.

[Owlswing]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

As usual - defending the indefensible!

[Jack Knave]

What should have been done as we became more high tech is that the wealth from the robots should have been more evenly distributed between the people and not allowed to stagnate with the rich elite as it has done. In essence the taxes would be taken from the robots at source.

Shoulda woulda coulda

ok until the cybermen turn up to save us all, shall we make do with immigrant labour?

If not, what's your plan for dealing with the pensions gap in the absence of [chortle] robots [/chortle]?

There's loads of money available. If there is £375 billion for the bankers in QE we can print the money for the pensioners. What's the problem? 

We could default on our £1.5 trillion debt, that would ease things up no end!!!

And generally, fuck the Neo-Liberal project.

[Jack Knave]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

You lot are having a go at the wrong people, the politicians are generally just small fry. It's the bankers, and corporates etc. that need a good kicking.

[Jack Knave]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

As someone who has defended the recent pay rise awarded to MPs, I feel I have to point out that the changes to other conditions were mainly around pension arrangements and while overall not far off fiscally neutral did not affect the allowances for staff and MPs take home salary has not been affected in the manner you have declared.

They already have extremely generous pension provisions, so they still benefit more that the rest of us.

Then there is the House of Lords that needs dealing with.

[BashfulAnthony]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

You lot are having a go at the wrong people, the politicians are generally just small fry. It's the bankers, and corporates etc. that need a good kicking.

But, unfortunately, it's the "small fry" politicians who are the only ones who can give them a good kicking.

[Jack Knave]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

You lot are having a go at the wrong people, the politicians are generally just small fry. It's the bankers, and corporates etc. that need a good kicking.

But, unfortunately, it's the "small fry" politicians who are the only ones who can give them a good kicking.

Well, they are part of it. There are more drastic approaches like some form of revolution.

[Harrowby Hall]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

As usual - defending the indefensible!

Just as a matter of interest, how much would you do the job for?

[Owlswing]

No 'cos those duplicitpous bastards would find some way to fiddle round it!

"those duplicitpous bastards" haven't given themselves a pay rise for about 5 years now.  What pay rises they have been awarded have been awarded by an independent body, and have involved quite dramatic changes in conditions - for instance an MP pays for his or her researcher and office staff out of that allowance.  In some cases, this has actually resulted in the MP's own take-home pay dropping quite considerably, and even more so when those who choose to do so give the award away to charity.

As usual - defending the indefensible!

Just as a matter of interest, how much would you do the job for?

Me? I wouldn't be a politician for any money!

As Billy Connolly has it (possibly paraphrased) "Anyone expressing a desire to be an MP should automatically be disbarred from ever being one!"

As my father had it " you can be two, and only two, out of these three things - a politician, and honest man/woman, living!"

[Hope]

As someone who has defended the recent pay rise awarded to MPs, I feel I have to point out that the changes to other conditions were mainly around pension arrangements and while overall not far off fiscally neutral did not affect the allowances for staff and MPs take home salary has not been affected in the manner you have declared.

I appreciate that, NS, and I was primarily trying to get over the fact that the MPs haven't voted themselves an increase since, iirc, 2008. 

I then thought it would be worth reminding some of the obviously less knowledgable that MPs pay include an element of other costs that they are responsible for, that therefore makes their actual take-home pay somewhat less than the headline figures.

[Nearly Sane]

As someone who has defended the recent pay rise awarded to MPs, I feel I have to point out that the changes to other conditions were mainly around pension arrangements and while overall not far off fiscally neutral did not affect the allowances for staff and MPs take home salary has not been affected in the manner you have declared.

I appreciate that, NS, and I was primarily trying to get over the fact that the MPs haven't voted themselves an increase since, iirc, 2008. 

I then thought it would be worth reminding some of the obviously less knowledgable that MPs pay include an element of other costs that they are responsible for, that therefore makes their actual take-home pay somewhat less than the headline figures.

Except you are incorrect about that and were incorrect in your post earlier. The rise is in their basic salary. There has been no adjustment that means that their allowance for office has been taken away if placed into that. They have not had substantial reductions on their take home pay as you made out.

[Hope]

Except you are incorrect about that and were incorrect in your post earlier. The rise is in their basic salary. There has been no adjustment that means that their allowance for office has been taken away if placed into that. They have not had substantial reductions on their take home pay as you made out.

OK, I'll accept that you are right. I was only going by what the reporter on the BBC said about the allowances.  I suppose that I may have misheard him, or even misinterpreted what I heard.

I think my main point is that - contrary to the views of a number of people I've read/listened to over the months - MPs no longer vote themselves increases.

[Owlswing]

Except you are incorrect about that and were incorrect in your post earlier. The rise is in their basic salary. There has been no adjustment that means that their allowance for office has been taken away if placed into that. They have not had substantial reductions on their take home pay as you made out.

OK, I'll accept that you are right. I was only going by what the reporter on the BBC said about the allowances.  I suppose that I may have misheard him, or even misinterpreted what I heard.

I think my main point is that - contrary to the views of a number of people I've read/listened to over the months - MPs no longer vote themselves increases.

True - they cannot.

I don't know which beknghted idiot came up with the rules when the committee that decides MP's was set up. precisely to stop MP's voting themselves stupid amounts each year, but iunder the rules MP's connot vote NOT to take the recommended rise.

MP's can only, as some have done, take the money and give it to charity!

[Sassy]

It would appear that 'illegal' and 'legal' immigrants have more rights in our Country than the people who are native of our Country or GB/UK.

[floo]

It would appear that 'illegal' and 'legal' immigrants have more rights in our Country than the people who are native of our Country or GB/UK.

A rubbish statement!