What Does Depression Feel Like? Trust Me -- You Really Don't Want To Know

[Keith Maitland]

"I have a suspicion that society, in its heart of hearts, despises depressives because it knows they have a point: the recognition that life is finite and sad and frightening – as well as those more sanctioned outlooks, joyful and exciting and complex and satisfying. There is a secret feeling most people enjoy that everything, at a fundamental level, is basically OK. Depressives suffer the withdrawal of that feeling, and it is frightening not only to experience but to witness"

RTWT here:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/19/depression-awareness-mental-illness-feel-like#comments

[floo]

I am sorry you suffer from depression, that must be very miserable for you.

[Leonard James]

I am sorry you suffer from depression, that must be very miserable for you.

Seconded! Let's hope a cure for it can be found in genetic engineering.

[Nearly Sane]

Hmmm what to make of the article?  In terms of trying to convey what depression is like I think it does a good job of his depression and the general feeling. And yes, absolutely some of it might be argued as somehow related to a form of realism, but it's an emotion so, to me, that sort of judgement only makes sense if you are looking at realism as internal. It's about making the mistake between realising there is no objective point, and dealing with that in different ways, and more crucially for me, understanding quite how much of that is mere brain chemistry.


I don't think society has a heart of hearts, and even figuratively I think that is a nonsense. There is something in the article which reads as a sort of fetishization of depression, that almost wallows in a them and us division, which to me is indulgent. Yes, there will be those who have no understanding of it, but bare numbers of sufferers is missing that this as with most things that are mental issues are on a continuum.


As to 'genetically curing' depression, I am uncomfortable with the idea. I might be a happier person without it, but I'd be a different one. I am unsure what that would mean. Depression is not simply like stopping cancer. Removing it would make central changes to me, how do I calculate what loss that might mean. Would a non depressed Van Gogh have been Van Gogh?

[Brownie]

That is a very, very good article.

[wigginhall]

It's an interesting idea that depression frightens some people.   I think this is true, but I'm not sure it's because the depressed person has seen a great truth, but rather, that depression tends to suck the oxygen out of the room, psychologically speaking.   

Well written though.  It's interesting that I often avoid this writer, precisely because he comes across as depressed; however, I don't find it threatening, just boring.   

That sounds rather unkind, but then some depressed people find life boring, so they become it.

[Brownie]

That's very true Wigginhall, unfortunately.
I might tell you a story, which is quite funny in a way, about when I posted on a forum for depressed people, we were all depressed.  Not today though, I can't be bothered (typical).

No seriously, everyone was depressed.  Thankfully none of us tried to give anyone advice, we had had enough of that from well meaning people outside of the forum.  There was one person who joined who wasn't clinically depressed, she'd had a lot of problems which had got her down but she rose above them and she did tell us all what to do - also preached.  No-one could really cope with her so it went quiet and she disappeared.  Then we were back to how we were before.

Some days people would say what they had done, like get up and come downstairs, maybe go to a corner shop.  Make a telephone call perhaps.

Days would go by with little or no activity.  Then a poster would say they were sorry not to have posted for a few days and we all said it didn't matter.  Lots of people stayed in bed quite a bit.

For about a week no-one seemed to get up.  Then the forum closed.  FIN.

[wigginhall]

That is quite funny, Brownie.  I used to work as a psychotherapist, and there were definite signs that someone was major depressed.   For one thing, your own thoughts and motivation began to slow down, until it felt like walking in mud.   At its extreme, it meant that I couldn't think, which is quite interesting.   So sometimes, I used to stay in that position, and try to talk about it, since they couldn't.   It probably sounded like 'Waiting for Godot'.

But there are also people with a manic persona, who can be very entertaining, and maybe they are in the worst mess of all, as they always have an escape from the depression, therefore never deal with it.

But it's fantastically complicated - some depressed people are very angry also, and some are guilty.  But I think it can be worked through, in many cases.

[Brownie]

Yeah well, maybe tomorrow.
Manic episodes are rare for most depressives, I suppose those who do experience them are considered to be bi-polar.  I'd say that depressives have a few minor highs, they don't last long unfortunately.

The worst thing a depressive can experience, or one of the worst things, is other people chiming in with 'advice', anecdotes about aunt's sister-in-law's cousin, religious people saying there isn't enough faith and you ''should'' do this and that, generally being upbeat.  It's enough to drive anyone under the duvet.  They don't seem to take hints either.

All we want is to be left alone to work it out for ourselves.  Talking does help in a confidential environment.

I have bought a Mindfulness colouring book, it looks amazing.  Can't wait to start using it - tomorrow maybe  .

[wigginhall]

Yes, I found through bitter experience, don't give advice, don't reassure people, cos it's phoney.   Don't say, it'll be alright, because it might not be.   Don't be cheery. 

In fact, I spent time with some people in silence for long periods.   

[Brownie]

Excellent Wiggy.

Quiet time is wonderful.  Sleep is better.
Going off the point a bit, I slept reasonably well last night but in the early hours I dreamed about Sassy would you believe.  I think it came from what you said to me yesterday, I've certainly never dreamed about her before.  She is a fair bit younger than me but was a really young woman in my dream and I was younger than I am now.  She was unbelievably upbeat!  She and I seemed to be living in the same house, in different areas, but there was a sort of communal sitting room' she went off somewhere while I entertained people from a church.  I was telling them that I didn't trust the church minister they used to have and also that I wanted to get away from ''here'', meaning the place I was staying.   They prevaricated, I wanted them to get to the point and help me.  Then I woke up.  I felt quite exhausted, as if I'd been travelling for a week.
Just thought I'd share.
Trying to remember where I put my felt tips, they are in a box somewhere.  Life is too complicated sometimes.

[Shaker]

I'm not sure it's because the depressed person has seen a great truth

Although that's overstating it, as the article mentions there's such a thing as depressive realism, where depressed people - sometimes even very seriously depressed individuals - seem to have a clearer and more realistic appraisal of outcomes than the non-depressed, which if the case would seem to indicate that good mental health relies on a sort of amiable dufferhood.

There's quite a body of evidence to this effect, I gather.

[Brownie]

Seconded! Let's hope a cure for it can be found in genetic engineering.

Len that is quite a flip thing to say.  Whilst there is some evidence of a genetic predisposition to depression what you are suggesting is that said gene be altered in some way which is quite dramatic.  Many with the genetic predisposition, who wouldn't know about it to begin with, don't become severely depressed.  Then there are some who have periods of depression but not all the time and are quite able to function, often very well.  To mess about with such a gene, if it were possible, would completely change a personality, not necessarily for the best.
Also there are other, non-genetic, factors involved in depression.

[Shaker]

Len that is quite a flip thing to say.  Whilst there is some evidence of a genetic predisposition to depression what you are suggesting is that said gene be altered in some way which is quite dramatic.  Many with the genetic predisposition, who wouldn't know about it to begin with, don't become severely depressed.  Then there are some who have periods of depression but not all the time and are quite able to function, often very well.  To mess about with such a gene, if it were possible, would completely change a personality, not necessarily for the best.
Also there are other, non-genetic, factors involved in depression.

As Nearly Sane also sketched up-thread, getting rid of depression would remove an incalculable amount of grotesque human suffering, but at the cost of an incalculable amount of human creative endeavour. If this had happened, say, five hundred years ago we can excise from history an enormous amount of its literature, music and painting - some of its best at that. Hamlet would be gone for starters. Much of the vast output of Shostakovich. A vast amount of the work of innumerable poets - Sylvia Plath would be gone, Mayakovsky, Larkin, Hopkins, Cowper, Coleridge.

[Brownie]

Yes indeed but some you mention were manic-depressive, what we now call bi-polar.  Sylvia Plath for example, and she did top herself poor soul.  Still you are right, it's not nice to live through though.  Someone above said the good thing was depression does go eventually but it can last a very long time, with occasional brief respite, and it seems like a lifetime.

I know someone very well, a talented musician and a computer programmer, who has a diagnosis of bi-polar and manages it quite well without medication (some of the meds make everything worse unfortunately).  This person has great insight and many friends.  One big difficulty is with relationships, they have had a couple of long term ones, one particularly lasted more than eight years, but it was difficult.  No animosity, they still have a high regard for eachother and are friends but living together became impossible.  You can imagine, when one has been working non stop and then wants to do nothing except stay in bed for days and the other would like to go out or on holiday, it's not a good scene.

Ah well, enough of this depressive talk.

I sincerely hope no-one does isolate the 'depressive gene', and get rid of it, it would do great damage and set a precedent for other things.