Racist incidents going of in England and Wales

[Brownie]

It does indeed wigginhall, proper contact, not just seeing people on the streets or in shops but knowing them, eg working with them or being friends with the parents of your children.

In my area of London the majority voted for Remain but only by a small margin.  That doesn't surprise me at all.

[ippy]

The racists think the Brexit vote has legitimised their cause.

What do you mean by the "sheer numbers"? The actual numbers of immigrants coming here (even less the ones that we can now stop) are not a huge deal.

Well that's up to the racists and I suppose there's no such thing as a racists in the remain camp?

I mean the sheer numbers, I thought that was straightforward enough, unless there's some sort of determination to not want to understand involved? 

I'm just genuinely glad we are leaving the EU; now the original EEC had it remained so, I couldn't see anything particularly wrong with that, the ever closer union was sneaked in behind the back door, we didn't have a say about that.

I really don't think we should have stayed in the EU and I can't see that I will be changing my mind about that, I'n not your enemy we just don't agree about this decision that has been taken.

ippy

[wigginhall]

It does indeed wigginhall, proper contact, not just seeing people on the streets or in shops but knowing them, eg working with them or being friends with the parents of your children.

In my area of London the majority voted for Remain but only by a small margin.  That doesn't surprise me at all.

UKIP is strongest where immigration is lowest, mainly.  I suppose it shows the power of fear and prejudice.   

[Bubbles]

On the other hand, London has a low UKIP vote, and voted mainly Remain, in my area, about 70%.   Also, areas with low immigration tended to vote Leave.   It's almost as if actual acquaintance with immigrants removes the fear and prejudice.

Sometimes it does, but not always.

Depends on the individual I'd say.

I like all the cultural differences where I am, but it still voted with a leave majority along with many other areas not in the countryside.

I think London has a different attitude to the rest of the country, probably because it's the capital.

One of the worst places is Luton, and they have lots of different ethnic groups.

It's where the EDL started. Luton seems to have a lot of racists in it.

Maybe that's just my impression.

Lots of people I have met from Luton who are English have complained about the expanding presence of foreigners.

Perhaps I'm wrong though, it's just my impression having moved here ( not Luton but commuting distance) from the west country 15 years ago.

Otherwise I might agree with you, Wigginhall

[Brownie]

You are right about Luton, Rose.   There is a large Muslim population and many people complain about the call to prayer from the Mosque, I've even seen posts from UKIP voters who live in Luton, who are Christian, who complain bitterly about it and about 'their' high street being full of 'Pakistanis'.  Yet Luton is a big place, with plenty of areas that aren't full of Muslims who seem to populate a small, dense area of the town.  Luton is a pleasant place with lots of countryside and good housing.  The EDL make lots of noise unfortunately.

I suppose Luton could be compared to Tower Hamlets in London, without the countryside of course, which is known from the media as a Muslim area.  However, move two or three streets away from that little pocket and it's a different world.  Canary Wharf for a start and it is a very expensive borough property-wise.

It's beyond me why we can't all get along.

[Bubbles]

Here's some good news from Dorset anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-36649639

Nice gesture 

[Brownie]

Very nice indeed.

[jeremyp]

No it really isn't.

Yes it is.

Democracy cannot function in a vacuum. It needs information and it needs debate. Trying to shut down the argument by saying "we've had the vote" is anti-democratic.

[wigginhall]

Saying that we should just accept the referendum vote is actually psychologically absurd and dangerous.   People need to mourn, in different ways, about different things.   I won't spell out all the classic stages of mourning, but they certainly include rage, denial, grief, bargaining, and so on.   We probably have to go through this for years, as with a divorce or a bereavement.  People don't just 'get over it'. 

[Brownie]

I agree that it is like a bereavement, so many are mourning.  I've not come across such collective grief over a political issue before but there is something comforting about so many feeling the same.

I put that badly!  I mean so many in sympathy, not that it's comforting for other people to be unhappy. 

[wigginhall]

I agree that it is like a bereavement, so many are mourning.  I've not come across such collective grief over a political issue before but there is something comforting about so many feeling the same.

But a lot of mourning is not about grief.   There is often a lot of anger and denial, and then all the other stuff, bargaining, guilt, blah blah blah.   

[Brownie]

Yes there is a tremendous amount of that too wigginhall.  Btw my previous post was badly worded, I've amended it (don't know that it's any better but hopefully others will know what I meant).

[wigginhall]

Certainly, with divorce and bereavement, there is often tons of anger, guilt, denial, as well as guilt.   And they're not really stages.   We used to reckon it would take 2 years with a serious bereavement, often more.   So there's plenty more to come. 

[ippy]

UKIP is strongest where immigration is lowest, mainly.  I suppose it shows the power of fear and prejudice.

And I suppose has nothing to do with the sheer numbers of immigrants?

It looks to me as if it has more to do with having to deal with the logic of being to able to  keep immigration within the bounds of a manageable flow of numbers, rather than fear and as for prejudice this doesn 't amount to very signifigant numbers of people these days when compared to just so very few years ago.

ippy