Waste coffee cups

[Hope]

What do you do with those Starbucks/Costa/Caffe Nero/Coffee 1/... takeout cups once you've drunk their contents?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36882799

[Brownie]

Where I live the council recycles food and drink cartons, plastic bottles and yogurt pots.
I'd have thought the coffee cups came into one of those categories, if I had one at home I would put it in my recycling bin.  Actually Nescafe Azeera now do Latte, Expresso and Americana in individual cups, sold in supermarkets.  They also sell them as ordinary instant coffee but you can buy a box of cups, more expensive, only four cups to a box.

Have I got it wrong all this time and been recycling stuff that I shouldn't?  I try to be careful.  I'd imagine places like Costa have their own recycling bin but only in boroughs that recycle that sort of stuff.

[Hope]

Where I live the council recycles food and drink cartons, plastic bottles and yogurt pots.
I'd have thought the coffee cups came into one of those categories, if I had one at home I would put it in my recycling bin.  Actually Nescafe Azeera now do Latte, Expresso and Americana in individual cups, sold in supermarkets.  They also sell them as ordinary instant coffee but you can buy a box of cups, more expensive, only four cups to a box.

Have I got it wrong all this time and been recycling stuff that I shouldn't?  I try to be careful.  I'd imagine places like Costa have their own recycling bin but only in boroughs that recycle that sort of stuff.

Brownie, if you read the artile, you will see that there are only 2 locations in the UK that are capable of recyclking these cups.  They aren't simply cardboard, they are card "... fused with polyethylene, a material that cannot be separated out again in a standard recycling mill."  Apparently, of the two sites in the UK that can recycle them, one has never recycled any, and the other only a 'handful'.

Like you, I thought they were recyclable; in future, I'll get myself one the chains' reusable mugs.

[L.A.]

What do you do with those Starbucks/Costa/Caffe Nero/Coffee 1/... takeout cups once you've drunk their contents?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36882799

Identifying the correct things to put in the Recycle bin is so complicated that I find it simpler just to stick everything in the non-recyclable bin.

[Brownie]

I can understand that LA.

Hope, I did read the article and had the vague hope that where I live was one of the areas that do recycle such things.  After all they take yogurt pots and fruit cartons which are covered in something.  I still don't know and, anyway, that wouldn't make much difference if I bought a cup of coffee outside of the Greenwich borough.

Life's a bore  .

[Hope]

Identifying the correct things to put in the Recycle bin is so complicated that I find it simpler just to stick everything in the non-recyclable bin.

Sadly, that is possibly the worst thing you can do, LA.  The important thing to remember is that most single 'constituent' items are recyclable - such as newspaper, tins and cans and other metal, silver foil, kitchen waste, cardboard, thick plastics (such a pop-bottle plastic and the trays that uncooked meat comes in), bottles, etc.  The problems arise when - like the coffee cups - they are a combination in and of themselves of different materials. 

[Hope]

According to the Guardian

It takes a specialist company, because the plastic used to laminate the cups has to be removed before the paper is pulped. A bit like the fruit juice cartons that, as any eager recycler will know, are not to be confused with cardboard and are processed alongside paper cups in Stainland, West Yorkshire, at the UK’s only carton recycling plant.

In fact the number of takeaway coffee cups recycled in the UK, either in Stainland or at a cup recycling plant in Cumbria, is 3m out of an annual total of an estimated 3bn – around 0.1%, or one in 1,000 cups (another few million are sent for recycling abroad).

http://bit.ly/2aysr3T

I also found this article - http://bit.ly/2awsOuL

[Brownie]

Thanks for that Hope, quite encouraging.  I am still trying to find out if Greenwich council are one of the two places in the country that recycle such cups but they are not specific on their website.

I had another thought.  Waitrose offer a free cup of coffee (from machine, in paper cup!) to all customers.  I've never taken advantage of their offer but you see people sitting in the window area, drinking their brew and reading the paper.  I always think I'll join them one day as it looks so pleasant - won't now. 

[L.A.]

Sadly, that is possibly the worst thing you can do, LA.  The important thing to remember is that most single 'constituent' items are recyclable - such as newspaper, tins and cans and other metal, silver foil, kitchen waste, cardboard, thick plastics (such a pop-bottle plastic and the trays that uncooked meat comes in), bottles, etc.  The problems arise when - like the coffee cups - they are a combination in and of themselves of different materials.

I don't think that is the case Hope. A number of years ago I did an OU Science/Technology foundation course as part of a degree and we had a short project looking at waste disposal - and the conclusion that our group came to was that incineration was the best option. It requires little sorting, metals are easily extracted from mixed waste and you can reclaim a useful amount of energy.

Of course that kind of common sense approach doesn't mesh with today's Green Dogma which likes to pretend that everything really is recycled (rather than shipped off halfway round the world where no one seems to know what happens to it)

P.S.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/sep/20/environment.china

[Brownie]

Incineration sounds like an excellent idea LA.

[Harrowby Hall]

The problem here is that incinerators are the perfect stimulus for wet dreams for NIMBYs.

You propose the building of an incinerator and you will be overrun with objectors.

[Brownie]

The incinerators could be sited in remote placed.  The Greenwich waste tip is off the beaten track as is the one in Bexley so an incinerator could be simillarly placed.  Or a deal could be done with crematoriums, the heat they generate is already used for swimming pools and the like.

[Harrowby Hall]

The incinerators could be sited in remote placed.

Indeed - but have a look at the history of the project to build an incinerator at Hartlebury, near Kidderminster.

 

  Or a deal could be done with crematoriums, the heat they generate is already used for swimming pools and the like.

This has been done in Redditch. It appears to have been a great success and received considerable approval when the plan was originally proposed.

[floo]

What do you do with those Starbucks/Costa/Caffe Nero/Coffee 1/... takeout cups once you've drunk their contents?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36882799

I have never had a take out cup of coffee in my life and would never want one. I think people should have to provide their own drink containers if they want a take out.

[Hope]

I don't think that is the case Hope. A number of years ago I did an OU Science/Technology foundation course as part of a degree and we had a short project looking at waste disposal - and the conclusion that our group came to was that incineration was the best option. It requires little sorting, metals are easily extracted from mixed waste and you can reclaim a useful amount of energy.

Of course that kind of common sense approach doesn't mesh with today's Green Dogma which likes to pretend that everything really is recycled (rather than shipped off halfway round the world where no one seems to know what happens to it)

P.S.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/sep/20/environment.china

In my view, incineration is a cop out.  It sees metals as the only thing that can be recycled, whereas there are many other valuable elements of waste, from glass to paper, cardboard to plastics.

The problem with incineration is that it assumes that we have plenty of raw materials with which to carry on making all these other products - sand, trees, oil, ...  Yes, there are plenty of these particular examples, but not always easily available, and not always appropriate for removal in this way.

Regarding your Guardian article, I've driven along the side of one of the waste mountain they have in China.  It was enormous - spreading over a massive area and tens of metres high.  This is the unacceptable side of waste disposal - though quite how much of that particular mountain was Western waste and how much was Chinese waste, I'm not sure.  However, that article is 12 years old, and I am also aware that more and more UK aste is being processed here in the UK - but by no means all. 

Finally, I'm aware of the potential hazards that incinerator plants pose.  There is a fairly new one in Cardiff, run by a company called Viridor.  It was, and is still referred to as a 'recovery' plant, but there is evidence that it is burning waste.  Currently, there seems to be an on-going debate as to were to dump the ash that it produces and all that that contains.  There used to be an incineration plant near Merthyr Tydfil - I think that was the Valley it was in - which was closed some years ago because of the links between its emissions and childhood cancers.  I appreciate that that was an old plant, and probably pretty inefficient and woth poor filtration procedures, but several others that have been built more recently have also been shown to have the same, or similar links.

[Hope]

The incinerators could be sited in remote placed.  The Greenwich waste tip is off the beaten track as is the one in Bexley so an incinerator could be simillarly placed.  Or a deal could be done with crematoriums, the heat they generate is already used for swimming pools and the like.

Unforetunately, Brownie, since the waste that is incinerated is largely generated by urban centres, few businesses want to be shpping that waste long distances for disposal.  Remember that landfill sites - though unsightly and prone to emission of methane - seldom emit the kind of carcinogenic material that incinerators can.

[L.A.]

In my view, incineration is a cop out.  It sees metals as the only thing that can be recycled, whereas there are many other valuable elements of waste, from glass to paper, cardboard to plastics.

I would dispute that Hope, modern incinerators can extract a large amount of energy from the waste and glass and metals can be recovered  - by most measures they are a good solution. A well designed, well maintained plant will not cause emission problems.

The problem with incineration is that it assumes that we have plenty of raw materials with which to carry on making all these other products - sand, trees, oil, ...  Yes, there are plenty of these particular examples, but not always easily available, and not always appropriate for removal in this way.

But we are generating energy and therefore saving fuel.

Regarding your Guardian article, I've driven along the side of one of the waste mountain they have in China.  It was enormous - spreading over a massive area and tens of metres high.  This is the unacceptable side of waste disposal - though quite how much of that particular mountain was Western waste and how much was Chinese waste, I'm not sure.  However, that article is 12 years old, and I am also aware that more and more UK aste is being processed here in the UK - but by no means all. 

That seems to be an inevitable consequence of collecting large amounts of low grade plastics that, although may have a theoretical value, in practice no one wants.

Finally, I'm aware of the potential hazards that incinerator plants pose.  There is a fairly new one in Cardiff, run by a company called Viridor.  It was, and is still referred to as a 'recovery' plant, but there is evidence that it is burning waste.  Currently, there seems to be an on-going debate as to were to dump the ash that it produces and all that that contains.  There used to be an incineration plant near Merthyr Tydfil - I think that was the Valley it was in - which was closed some years ago because of the links between its emissions and childhood cancers.  I appreciate that that was an old plant, and probably pretty inefficient and woth poor filtration procedures, but several others that have been built more recently have also been shown to have the same, or similar links.

These plants do need monitoring but there is no reason why they should not be safe and clean - unless the operators are cutting corners.

[Hope]

I would dispute that Hope, modern incinerators can extract a large amount of energy from the waste and glass and metals can be recovered  - by most measures they are a good solution. A well designed, well maintained plant will not cause emission problems.

The one in Cardiff, built within the last 5 years, is already showing signs of poor quality emissions.

But we are generating energy and therefore saving fuel.

And energy of this sort is a single use commodity.

That seems to be an inevitable consequence of collecting large amounts of low grade plastics that, although may have a theoretical value, in practice no one wants.

OK, so you're not keen of collecting plastics, etc for recycling, but you're happy to collect them in large quantities in a site where they will take years, perhaps even centuries, to break-down with allthe potential for contaminating the water supplies for generations to come?

These plants do need monitoring but there is no reason why they should not be safe and clean - unless the operators are cutting corners.

And can you tell me, honestly, that piovate companies won't cut corners and that public authorities won't be cash-strapped and therefore unable to monitor adequately?

[Brownie]

You all make very good points so I am giving up on the idea of incineration.
We could bring the cups home, dry them and keep them in the shed until we have a bonfire I suppose.
Floo has a good idea, take our own mug with us when we go out and if we fancy a Starbucks or Costa, ask them to put it in that.  When we've finished, put the used mug in a plastic carrier bag until we get home.

[Sassy]

What do you do with those Starbucks/Costa/Caffe Nero/Coffee 1/... takeout cups once you've drunk their contents?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36882799

Burn the waste cups instead of using them as landfill.

[Brownie]

That suggestion has been discussed at some length in previous posts.

[L.A.]

The one in Cardiff, built within the last 5 years, is already showing signs of poor quality emissions.

It sounds like an issue that you should take-up with Cardiff council. What I am saying is that it need not happen.

And energy of this sort is a single use commodity.

Whether you like it or not, these fuels will be needed for some time yet, but the paper component of waste is of course renewable.

OK, so you're not keen of collecting plastics, etc for recycling, but you're happy to collect them in large quantities in a site where they will take years, perhaps even centuries, to break-down with allthe potential for contaminating the water supplies for generations to come?

I don't advocate landfill and I don't actually oppose recycling, I just think far too much of this kind of thing is driven by Green Dogma that doesn't actually work.

And can you tell me, honestly, that piovate companies won't cut corners and that public authorities won't be cash-strapped and therefore unable to monitor adequately?

What you are saying is that people will always break the law for gain. Inevitably some will I suppose, but that's why we have police. In the case of these kinds of plants I believe there is an inspection regime.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Hope,

The important bit of your article.

That adds up to a huge number of used cups - more than seven million a day, or 2.5 billion a year. The sorry truth is, next to none of them are recycled - and the even sorrier fact is that no-one's taking responsibility for that, least of all the big coffee retailers who have created this takeout trash mountain.

These trendy coffee retailers don't give a fig, quite happy to rake in the profits, the environment is some one else's problem, whose problem will it ultimately become? our kids, Costa, Starbucks care not a jot about the future or the environment, they care about their profits.

And as you rightly point out, we do not have unlimited resources, our kids ( once again ) are going to look back and think, what the F*** were we thinking, we raped the planet so we could have a fancy cup of coffee, and of course we also forget the actual coffee itself, we need land, fertile land to grow our fancy coffee, we destroy natural habitat to sustain our coffee addiction.

So I say, well done Shuggie firtree witterall, yer a good man, will anyone listen to you, probably not, greed and profit rule the day.

Gonnagle.