Instinctive paganism

[Rhiannon]

That's a broad definition - the passage I paraphrased was emphasising paganism in a definitionally narrower but in practical terms more numerically widespread sense of a spiritual path (even a religion, by some lights) with nature as its focal point of reverence. The implication is that if we reset the clock to zero and ran the experiment of Planet Earth again, paganism would revive (whereas Christianity et. al wouldn't, built as they are on alleged specific persons and events) because the human response to nature is innate and perennial.

I think that as soon as we divided ourselves off into them and us and have land and tribes to defend we'd invent a sky god who would direct the suffering of our enemies once more.

[Sassy]

Unlike you, Sassy, who always have one foot firmly jammed in your mouth!

You make such tasteless and such bad remarks about other people.  Then accuse those people of doing what you do.  Do you not find it odd you have such double standards?
Or that you are really doing what you falsely accuse others of doing.

Does your beliefs really teach you such hatred and vile things?

[Owlswing]

You make such tasteless and such bad remarks about other people.  Then accuse those people of doing what you do.  Do you not find it odd you have such double standards?
Or that you are really doing what you falsely accuse others of doing.

Does your beliefs really teach you such hatred and vile things?

No. It is your denial of any validity of any belief other than yours. You insist that yours is the only true belief, that everyone else accept that they are in error just because you say so.

You refuse to even consider that your beliefs may be in error. This monumental arrogance in your attachment to a book that has been, by those outside your belief, shown to containing errors of fact which you also refuse to accept, insisting that it is the proofs of your error that are in error.

Ye Gods and little fishes - there are even Christians on this forum that do not accept your version of Christianity.

It is your attitude to MY beliefs that are tasteless and your bad remarks about other people who hold other beliefs, calling us liars, stupid, and ignorant that teaches us, well me anyway, such hatred and to say what you consider are vile things when applied to your belief but allowing you to say anything no matter how vile or hateful they may be!

[Sassy]

No. It is your denial of any validity of any belief other than yours. You insist that yours is the only true belief, that everyone else accept that they are in error just because you say so.

WRONG...I have no reason to insist on any such thing.IT IS YOU AGAIN MAKING FALSE ACCUSATIONS.. What the truth is, when I share my beliefs I have scripture to support it.
Other Christians cannot use scripture to deny it or change that truth.
As for you as an atheist/pagan what would it be to you? You already admit your beliefs are built on myths so it would be illogical for you to argue about my beliefs.

You refuse to even consider that your beliefs may be in error. This monumental arrogance in your attachment to a book that has been, by those outside your belief, shown to containing errors of fact which you also refuse to accept, insisting that it is the proofs of your error that are in error.

Well show us what error that might be considered to be such an error in what I believe?
The monumental arrogance is someone like yourself who admits your beliefs are not based on anything concrete  so question mine.  YOU CANNOT EVEN BEGIN TO KNOW MY FAITH let alone understand it. So how do you have the gaul to question something you have no personal knowledge or experience about. NO ARROGANCE just a strong faith one you cannot tear down.
That is your arrogance that you cannot accept GOD is revealing himself to others and not you.
The facts of the bible are not able to be refuted.YOU CAN'T DO IT, No man can till they can you don't have an argument. You attack because you have nothing but contempt that others have something you don't.

Ye Gods and little fishes - there are even Christians on this forum that do not accept your version of Christianity.

RED HERRING... Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came in the flesh. He died for our sins on the cross and rose again from the dead. NO OTHER VERSION OF CHRISTIANITY. So you make up things and cannot even know what Christianity is, to make such a remark. You think you can tell which Christian is right?

1 John 4King James Version (KJV)

4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


I have told you Jesus Christ came in the flesh. They tell you God came in the flesh.
Who does John say is right?

Now desist because even the above proves you are wrong as they are wrong when it comes to knowing Christ is the Son of God and Christ came in the flesh.

It is your attitude to MY beliefs that are tasteless and your bad remarks about other people who hold other beliefs, calling us liars, stupid, and ignorant that teaches us, well me anyway, such hatred and to say what you consider are vile things when applied to your belief but allowing you to say anything no matter how vile or hateful they may be!

The proof it that your tasteless and bad remarks stating things not true and boring as you have NEVER PROVED IT, show that I have NEVER CALLED ANYONE LIARS.
STUPID or IGNORANT ABOUT THEIR OWN BELIEFS. Ignorant about my beliefs as the above
proves because you could not show I was wrong as a believer and the word shows I was speaking the truth and yet you now have to face that truth.

The truth is your beliefs are something you chose. Chose having not credence to them.
My beliefs have God and Jesus Christ, they give those beliefs credence.
Do I need to prove it. NO!  Do I believe you know your beliefs have no credence in truth? Yes!
I am therefore being honest not deceptive and not calling anyone liars because the pagans I know admit it. They don't use it to make personal attacks on believers as you do.
Like myself,. we/they accept our beliefs for what they are. You need to attack anyone who does not accept your beliefs. I do not accept anything which I can see to be unfounded and myths.

My heart goes out to those whose beliefs who have lead people in history to sacrifice their children and pretend to distance themselves from that history today somehow makes it okay,
Do you believe the history of the RC makes it okay for them to distance themselves from that history? If so why do so many bring it up.

Kettle and pot. Personally, why would anyone want to insult paganism or any other religion
when the history of most beliefs do it for them?

Nah! Life too short.Whatever your wrong thinking of me, one day we will both stand before our creator and I am not going to be the one told off because I never shared what I believed.

i AM ALLOWED TO BELIEVE WITHOUT YOU ATTACKING ME WITH UNTRUTHS ABOUT MY BELIEFS OR HOW I SEE THE BELIEFS OF OTHERS.

[Shaker]

That's not writing, that's typing*.

* © T. Capote

[Owlswing]

Reply to SASSY

i AM ALLOWED TO BELIEVE WITHOUT YOU ATTACKING ME WITH UNTRUTHS ABOUT MY BELIEFS OR HOW I SEE THE BELIEFS OF OTHERS.

[Brownie]

Well it got Rhiannon back! 
.............

Yes, we are all glad to see her back, she's so balanced (though I don't think this or any other thread had anything to do with it, she intended to come back some time).

Shaker opening post:  Paganism is based on an innate/inherent human reaction to the natural world. If every scrap of knowledge of Christianity, Judaism and Islam disappeared from the world overnight, they would and could never be recreated in anywhere near the same form (if at all), but paganism would.

I've read all the opinions here which are quite fascinating and don't have anything much to add, however my strong instinctive feeling, for what it's worth, is that what Shaker quoted, above, is spot on.   What I have read about the customs and rituals of early homo sapiens seems to bear this out.

[Udayana]

Yes, though it was Shaker, not NS, I think.

[Brownie]

You're right.

[Dicky Underpants]

I think it was Dicky who pointed out in a recent thread that he thought that Christianity was just an elaborate pagan format. From my archetypal reading of Jung's psychology this made sense, though before this I had not bothered to joined the dots on this.

Btw, nice question.

I was suggesting that it was particularly the Pauline elements in Christianity that gave it a particularly 'pagan' colouring, though with Christ as the 'Hero' figure, other parts of the NT would certainly fit into Joseph Campbell's and Jung's frameworks

[Jack Knave]

That's a broad definition - the passage I paraphrased was emphasising paganism in a definitionally narrower but in practical terms more numerically widespread sense of a spiritual path (even a religion, by some lights) with nature as its focal point of reverence. The implication is that if we reset the clock to zero and ran the experiment of Planet Earth again, paganism would revive (whereas Christianity et. al wouldn't, built as they are on alleged specific persons and events) because the human response to nature is innate and perennial.

I notice you have added in this post, and what was not in your OP, that being, the evolution of the Earth. This would raise the matter of whether mankind would evolve at all, and many other events that lead to mammals and mankind. I would suggest you would only need to go back about 200,000 years to try out this project.

[Rhiannon]

I was suggesting that it was particularly the Pauline elements in Christianity that gave it a particularly 'pagan' colouring, though with Christ as the 'Hero' figure, other parts of the NT would certainly fit into Joseph Campbell's and Jung's frameworks

Yep, that'll be the Hellenism.

[Owlswing]

Yep, that'll be the Hellenism.

As opposed to Christianity which is often Hellonearthism.