Im watching children in need

[Hope]

You believe god the 'scientist' created everything, so it must have created evil too. Therefore human wrongdoing is all down to god!

Floo, scientifically, things have the potential to go or develop in more than one way.  Often, that potential is activated by differing conditions, and result in different outcomes.  To take one example, your claim here would seem to suggest scientists who investigated and studied the make-up of the atom and its characteristics are to blame for the atomic bomb and subsequent nuclear weapons.

[Hope]

Surely omnipotent God could easily have magicked up a divine human.

How?  You're making the suggestion - give us some clues (remember that said divine human had to fulfil a number of specific characteristics that could be seen to be the case by the Jews).

[Hope]

According to Nick and the like , god made the universe and everything in it, except the things they don't like, of course.

Which Nick would that be, Walter?   

If anything, God can be found guilty of allowing the potential for evil, by giving humanity freedom of choice; he can't be accused of creating it, though.

[Walter]

If you were really watching 'Children in Need' on Friday, Walter, you would have seen him in the actions of hundreds of thousands of people who give up their time to help others, to raise funds, to care for people.  Before you get too complacent, perhaps you can answer this question "Where was your god when the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, releasing lethal does of radiation and heat energy?"  Science has managed to resolve some of the issues around nuclear (and not merely weapons), but by no means all - are you going to argue that this had nothing to do with science?

of course not , it had everything to do with science but it was the government who commissioned it and deployed it.
Besides that what a pathetic comeback, if your god exists why does he allow such suffering .
I would suggest either your god is not there or is sadistic bustard with a sick sense of humour

[Walter]

Which Nick would that be, Walter?   

If anything, God can be found guilty of allowing the potential for evil, by giving humanity freedom of choice; he can't be accused of creating it, though.

doesn't matter how many times you roll out that old chestnut its as wrong this time as the first time some lame brained apologist coined it when Adam was a lad.

[Hope]

doesn't matter how many times you roll out that old chestnut its as wrong this time as the first time some lame brained apologist coined it when Adam was a lad.

At least its an explanation - never seen anything even approaching an explanation from anyone on your side of the fence.  Until you (collectively) can produce an explanation that actually fits the situation logically, I'll reserve judgement.

[Hope]

of course not , it had everything to do with science but it was the government who commissioned it and deployed it.

So, you have acknowledged the principle I was trying to get at - that the source isn't necessarily the cause.

Besides that what a pathetic comeback, if your god exists why does he allow such suffering .

It may be a pathetic comeback in your eyes, but again you haven't dealt with the freedom of choice issue.  I'm sure that he could have stopped all suffering but, as I've pointed out on a number of occasions - for instance in response to similar comments from Floo - he is a God who has given freedom of choice and isn't going to overrule this at every turn.  Either you have your 'sadistic bustard', who heals, saves, protects secures some but not all, or you have a system whereby every mistake we make has a damaging effect on the people amongst whom we live and work, and (in effect) they share the punishment.

Note that I'm not remotely suggesting that the division is anything to do with belief or otherwise, as both believers and non-believers get rained on, shined on, bullied, treated unfairly, wrongly accused, mistreated, .... 

I would suggest either your god is not there or is sadistic bustard with a sick sense of humour

In my view, he is both 'here', and an amazingly loving and caring being with a truly wicked sense of humour.  ('Wicked' used in the modern sense)

[Walter]

So, you have acknowledged the principle I was trying to get at - that the source isn't necessarily the cause.
It may be a pathetic comeback in your eyes, but again you haven't dealt with the freedom of choice issue.  I'm sure that he could have stopped all suffering but, as I've pointed out on a number of occasions - for instance in response to similar comments from Floo - he is a God who has given freedom of choice and isn't going to overrule this at every turn.  Either you have your 'sadistic bustard', who heals, saves, protects secures some but not all, or you have a system whereby every mistake we make has a damaging effect on the people amongst whom we live and work, and (in effect) they share the punishment.

Note that I'm not remotely suggesting that the division is anything to do with belief or otherwise, as both believers and non-believers get rained on, shined on, bullied, treated unfairly, wrongly accused, mistreated, .... 
In my view, he is both 'here', and an amazingly loving and caring being with a truly wicked sense of humour.  ('Wicked' used in the modern sense)

Hope there is no point in me arguing with you ,its pointless. Your delusion has blinded you and I find it very sad  . Your judgment is permanently flawed to the extent that your view of reality is so skewed  that you make a ridiculous defence for your god to the extent that it appears to have the logic of a child  to someone like me. 
I wish you well.

[jeremyp]

How? 

He allegedly created the Universe, a mere human being should not be beyond his power.

You're making the suggestion - give us some clues (remember that said divine human had to fulfil a number of specific characteristics that could be seen to be the case by the Jews).

Jesus fails to meet the specific characteristics of the Messiah. Doing away with a human mother as well as a human father wouldn't alter Jesus' qualifications significantly.

[Sassy]

He allegedly created the Universe, a mere human being should not be beyond his power.
Jesus fails to meet the specific characteristics of the Messiah. Doing away with a human mother as well as a human father wouldn't alter Jesus' qualifications significantly.

Jesus never failed to meet the CHARACTERISTICS he was without sin. Got proof he wasn't?

[Walter]

Jesus never failed to meet the CHARACTERISTICS he was without sin. Got proof he wasn't?

dum-de-dum-de-dum

[jeremyp]

Jesus never failed to meet the CHARACTERISTICS he was without sin. Got proof he wasn't?

We are all without sin. For sin to exist, God would have to exist. Got any proof that he does?

[floo]

Jesus never failed to meet the CHARACTERISTICS he was without sin. Got proof he wasn't?

The Bible gives the impression he was just human like the rest of us, and far from perfect!

[Sassy]

We are all without sin. For sin to exist, God would have to exist. Got any proof that he does?

You mean you never have done anything you consider to be wrong?
Do you need proof of God to know you have done wrong?
So you really haven't a argument?  You see sin is committing adultery etc are you saying it isn't wrong to do this or steal, lie and cheat?

We are on the same page now...

[Hope]

Hope there is no point in me arguing with you ,its pointless. Your delusion has blinded you and I find it very sad  . Your judgment is permanently flawed to the extent that your view of reality is so skewed  that you make a ridiculous defence for your god to the extent that it appears to have the logic of a child  to someone like me. 
I wish you well.

Sorry to hear that you can't cope with my arguments, Walter; mind you, if all you can do is put the problem down to 'delusion' it suggests that there are a number of deluded scientists, mathematicians, historians, academics, handymen and women, lawyers, sailors, sports people, etc., etc.

[Walter]

Sorry to hear that you can't cope with my arguments, Walter; mind you, if all you can do is put the problem down to 'delusion' it suggests that there are a number of deluded scientists, mathematicians, historians, academics, handymen and women, lawyers, sailors, sports people, etc., etc.

Hope

you are right, there's millions of em everywhere.
and therein lies the problem