Charlie Gard and God

[Sriram]

It depends upon what you consider to be 'suddenly'.

I have been angry about Charlie's situation since it first became public knowledge.

Being very angry with a Christian God ...that you don't believe in...doesn't seem quite right, isn't it?!  Maybe you are angry with Christians for believing in such a God, which is a different matter altogether.

[Owlswing]

I hope the Charlie Gard situation has not compromised the care of other children being treated at GOSH. I feel so sorry for the staff who must have been under the most awful strain since the media got involved in the case.

Could it not be said that the pressure on the doctors and nurses at GOSH has been BECAUSE the media got involved?

I mean as in 'got involved' rather than just reporting the facts of what was happening.

[Owlswing]

Being very angry with a Christian God ...that you don't believe in...doesn't seem quite right, isn't it?!  Maybe you are angry with Christians for believing in such a God, which is a different matter altogether.

I am angry at the Christian God that Christian's demand that everyone believe in as the 'one true God'; the be all and end all of Creation etc etc etc ad bloody nauseam!

IF the Christian God is as advertised by the Christians and the Church then he is responsible for what happened to Charlie and what he suffered and what his family suffered.

HE taught the Christians what they advertise - without him there would be no Christians - they are part and parcel of the same unpleasant philosophy.

[Owlswing]

COME ON CHRISTIANS, SASSY, ALAN B, ET AL; WHERE ARE YOU IN DEFENCE OF YOUR GOD! YOU ARE USUALLY QUICK ENOUGH TO LEAP TO HIS DEFENCE, TO PROSELYTISE HIS SUPREME POWER AND GOODNESS  - YOUR SILENCE ON THIS THREAD IS DEAFENING!!!!!!

[Nearly Sane]

While you are waiting, Owlswung for replies from people, a number of whom haven't been logged on, can I just ask what you mean when you say Charlie Gard will be in Summerlands having what happened to him explained? In what sense will this poor child be in any way able to understand anything more than here, and what is being explained?

[Owlswing]

While you are waiting, Owlswung for replies from people, a number of whom haven't been logged on, can I just ask what you mean when you say Charlie Gard will be in Summerlands having what happened to him explained? In what sense will this poor child be in any way able to understand anything more than here, and what is being explained?

What goes to the Summerlands is the persons 'Spirit' - what makes them what they are that is not physical.

I do not have your way with words so this explantion will probably entail a to-and-fro in  order for me to put over what I mean.

Charlie's Spirit will be fully aware of everything that Charlie was in life - his physical age will be no barrier to his understanding of what transpired between his birth and his death. In the Summerlands there will be others who will be, as he will be, awaiting the time of their re-birth who will cover the entire spectrum of human existance and experience.

Please, if this does not make sense to you, let me know in what way I need to clarify my vision of what the Summerlands represents to me personally - I cannot, as I have tried to explain before, speak for anyone else.

Ther basics are the same for all who believe in the Summerlands but the details tend to vary as, as with the Heaven of the Christians, exactly what is there and what happens there are matters of pure faith and speculation.     

[Spud]

Hi Owlswing. A couple, whose firstborn died at 3 months, wrote on his gravestone:
Who plucked this bud?
I, said the Master, and the gardener was silent.

[Owlswing]

Hi Owlswing. A couple, whose firstborn died at 3 months, wrote on his gravestone:
"Who plucked this bud?" said the gardener.
"I", said the Master, and the gardener was silent.

Your point?

Please.

[Nearly Sane]

Hi Owlswing. A couple, whose firstborn died at 3 months, wrote on his gravestone:
Who plucked this bud?
I, said the Master, and the gardener was silent.

That's a bit of skill from the gardener chappie, being able to keep silent while vomiting his gut up.

[Nearly Sane]

What goes to the Summerlands is the persons 'Spirit' - what makes them what they are that is not physical.

I do not have your way with words so this explantion will probably entail a to-and-fro in  order for me to put over what I mean.

Charlie's Spirit will be fully aware of everything that Charlie was in life - his physical age will be no barrier to his understanding of what transpired between his birth and his death. In the Summerlands there will be others who will be, as he will be, awaiting the time of their re-birth who will cover the entire spectrum of human existance and experience.

Please, if this does not make sense to you, let me know in what way I need to clarify my vision of what the Summerlands represents to me personally - I cannot, as I have tried to explain before, speak for anyone else.

Ther basics are the same for all who believe in the Summerlands but the details tend to vary as, as with the Heaven of the Christians, exactly what is there and what happens there are matters of pure faith and speculation.   

thanks for this, It's perfectly clear. it no more ties in with what is either my own view, or I regard as a logical position than anything from the transubstantiation to miracles with parking tickets but since you aren't proselytising or arguing against a generally rational approach, I don't feel the need nor think this is the thread to go analytical on your ass.

[Robbie]

But it would be very good on the Pagan topic.

[Owlswing]

But it would be very good on the Pagan topic.

As would a comment by a Christian on the actual topic herein!

[Robbie]

I did on previous page, maybe not satisfactorily to you Owlswing. I could go on, thought about it over the past couple of days when reading the thread about Charlie on the General Section but decided not to.When I was on holiday all of us kept up with his story and talked about him a lot. I understand all the views but don't feel up to discussing it any more.

It would be helpful if other Christians had something to say,it seems they just haven't been on the forum. They'll probably contribute to this thread when they next log on.

I read this yesterday - it doesn't give you any answers to your questions Owlswing but is heartfelt:-
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/31/archbishop-of-canterbury-my-heart-breaks-for-charlie-gards-family

(I also read up on Summerlands)

[jeremyp]

P S - YES - I'm fucking angry! Fucking angry to a level beyond any words that exist in my limited vocabulary to describe.

What about? You do understand that there was no god actually involved in Charlie Gard's illness, don't you? He was the victim of a chance combination of genes. His parents are victims of millennia of selection pressure that gave them an instinct to protect Charlie at whatever cost.

There's nobody to get angry at - except maybe the doctor that gave them false hope.

[jeremyp]

It's never occurred to me to blame God if someone I love is ill, pointless. It's called being human.

Would you thank God if they got better?

[Owlswing]

What about? You do understand that there was no god actually involved in Charlie Gard's illness, don't you? He was the victim of a chance combination of genes. His parents are victims of millennia of selection pressure that gave them an instinct to protect Charlie at whatever cost.

There's nobody to get angry at - except maybe the doctor that gave them false hope.

Not according to the Christians - hence my request foir them to post here.

According to them everything that happens in this world is to HIS plan, to HIS whim!

I want to know why he either caused the pain and suffering experienced by both Charlie and his family or denied the doctors the means necessary to cure him!

I KNOW that the Christian God is as much a matter of faith not fact as are my own, but the Chrisdtians adamantly refute this and state categorically that their God is a FACT, as is his omnipotence and his authorship of everything that happens to every human on this beknighted planet!

They are usually so quick to jump on anyone who dares to contradict their version of things and their silence in answer to my questions is deafening!

[Sassy]

Christians - all of you on this forum -

Would you now like to take this as an opportunity to deliver your opinions and judgemernt upon the decision of your God to put Charlie Gard through almost a year of totally unnecessary suffering ending in his death by a disease that is incurable.

At the same time would you please give justification for your God putting Charie's parents through Hell on Earth!

My two-penneth - you've already had it quite a few times and this case doesn't change it, it reinforces it - he is a sadistic vindictive bastard!

P S - YES - I'm fucking angry! Fucking angry to a level beyond any words that exist in my limited vocabulary to describe.

What can I say.... unbelievers allow Satan to do the things you accuse God of doing.
If mankind believed in God and Jesus, Satan would have no reason to maintain his deceptions turning hearts and minds against God, so that they themselves eventually suffer eternal separation from God.

If mankind stopped sinning there would be no power by Satan to cause the suffering.

What right have you to be angry. Your anger and your  disbeliefs make these things possible.

[Robbie]

Would you thank God if they got better?

Yes I would!

[floo]

What can I say.... unbelievers allow Satan to do the things you accuse God of doing.
If mankind believed in God and Jesus, Satan would have no reason to maintain his deceptions turning hearts and minds against God, so that they themselves eventually suffer eternal separation from God.

If mankind stopped sinning there would be no power by Satan to cause the suffering.

What right have you to be angry. Your anger and your  disbeliefs make these things possible.

Another silly assertion, Sass!

[Owlswing]

What can I say.... unbelievers allow Satan to do the things you accuse God of doing.
If mankind believed in God and Jesus, Satan would have no reason to maintain his deceptions turning hearts and minds against God, so that they themselves eventually suffer eternal separation from God.

If mankind stopped sinning there would be no power by Satan to cause the suffering.

What right have you to be angry. Your anger and your  disbeliefs make these things possible.

It has been asked before "How, if your God is omnipotent, is Satan able to operate if not by your God's permission?"

I just knew that, when you finally got around to posting, you would make it someone else's fault - couldn't possibly be your God could it!

[floo]

It has been asked before "How, if your God is omnipotent, is Satan able to operate if not by your God's permission?"

I just knew that, when you finally got around to posting, you would make it someone else's fault - couldn't possibly be your God could it!

Of course not!

[Owlswing]

Yes I would!

You Christians really do take the cake - don't blame God when it goes wrong but praise him when it goes right!

Pathetic!