Legal and consented Female Genital Mutilation

[floo]

It's your judgemental attitude towards other people, Floo.
People you don't actually know.

I'm appalled! TBH.

I said we made a point of finding out about people first, far better safe than sorry, what on earth is wrong with that? I feel sorry for kids who have parents with very lax attitudes!

[Bubbles]

I said we made a point of finding out about people first, far better safe than sorry, what on earth is wrong with that? I feel sorry for kids who have parents with very lax attitudes!

It's controlling! Has nothing to do with children being safe.

[wigginhall]

My best friend's father had been in prison.   Big deal.   It could be worse, he could be a Tory. 

[Shaker]

Isn't that choosing your children's friends though?

Children don't always choose friends just because their parents, get on well with their friends  parents.

I used to know a woman years ago - a Palestinian woman; not that that would normally be in any way relevant to mention, save that it may highlight a cultural difference - and one day we were talking about kids and their friends. She was expressing disapproval of one of her daughter's friends and I, in my casual white secular top end of working class not quite middle class but you never know liberal way, casually said: "Ah well. You can't choose your children's friends, can you" thinking that the conversation would flow easily and effortlessly on thereafter.

From the look on her face I might as well have said I wanted naughty bum fun with the Queen Mother. She was absolutely aghast. The very idea that you can't and moreover shouldn't dictate the friendships that your children make was incomprehensible to her.

[Shaker]

My best friend's father had been in prison.   Big deal.   It could be worse, he could be a Tory.

For a fair few that's one and the same thing.

A few more in the fullness of time, I'll wager.

[Rhiannon]

It's controlling! Has nothing to do with children being safe.

And of course as an adult you say, yes mum, we had a great childhood. What else can you do?

[Nearly Sane]

It's controlling! Has nothing to do with children being safe.

Or even having bits of their penises

[Robbie]

I think floo makes a lot of things up and harks back to a time that never was. We're not talking about 6 year olds are we? When our children get past 12 or so they must be allowed to choose their friends and have some privacy - and some trust from parents. If they don't they will rebel. I certainly would have.

[Rhiannon]

My job is to ensure my kids no longer need me. That means that they have to have their own lives. And they need to know that I respect and trust them.

[Shaker]

I supect there are still some people who take the (at latest) 1950s view that children are chattels of the parents and scaled-down versions of them.

I consider it healthier to regard children as people in progress, and especially by the time they ease out of prepubesence into adolescence as adults in waiting. That's why, as I said in an earlier post, it's vital that they have secrets and secrecy - that's what Montaigne called our own little back room where we can be our own true and essential and authentic selves. This is the very heart of character formation and self-building - interfere in that and you fuck up people for life. Interfere in that and you don't want autonomous adults living their own lives according to their lights, you want carbon copies of yourself.

[Rhiannon]

I supect there are still some people who take the (at latest) 1950s view that children are chattels of the parents and scaled-down versions of them.

I consider it healthier to regard children as people in progress, and especially by the time they ease out of prepubesence into adolescence as adults in waiting. That's why, as I said in an earlier post, it's vital that they have secrets and secrecy - that's what Montaigne called our own little back room where we can be our own true and essential and authentic selves. This is the very heart of character formation and self-building - interfere in that and you fuck up people for life. Interfere in that and you don't want autonomous adults living their own lives according to their lights, you want carbon copies of yourself.

And copies that are never free of you.

[Shaker]

Yup.

[Robbie]

My job is to ensure my kids no longer need me. That means that they have to have their own lives. And they need to know that I respect and trust them.

That's right and that's what real love is, letting people be themselves and make decisions. Kids aren't property, they need guidance and protection sure but as they get older they have to learn to make their own decisions - including mistakes - and to mix with all sorts of people from different backgrounds.

[Shaker]

That's right and that's what real love is, letting people be themselves and make decisions. Kids aren't property, they need guidance and protection sure but as they get older they have to learn to make their own decisions - including mistakes - and to mix with all sorts of people from different backgrounds.

It's the letting kids make their own mistakes in their own way which is the last ditch for most parents though.

It's entirely understandable, and a rare parent who trusts enough in learning by/from experience to see their offspring suffer in the short term in order to take on board the lesson in the long term, though.

[Bubbles]

My job is to ensure my kids no longer need me. That means that they have to have their own lives. And they need to know that I respect and trust them.

Yes, I feel the same way.

[Bubbles]

It's the letting kids make their own mistakes in their own way which is the last ditch for most parents though.

It's entirely understandable, and a rare parent who trusts enough in learning by/from experience to see their offspring suffer in the short term in order to take on board the lesson in the long term, though.

Yes I remember my youngest learning to ride a bike without stabilisers. I was so scared he was going to fall off, I couldn't let go of the bike . ( running alongside)

He was furious lol.

I learnt as I went along, as did they.

It's hard watching them do something where they might fall off and get hurt, but mine told me off,  in no uncertain terms if I tried to fuss over them 🙂

Letting them cross the road on their own for the first time is hard too.

Trouble is, if you wrap them in cotton wool, they don't learn.

[Robbie]

It's the letting kids make their own mistakes in their own way which is the last ditch for most parents though.

It's entirely understandable, and a rare parent who trusts enough in learning by/from experience to see their offspring suffer in the short term in order to take on board the lesson in the long term, though.

You're right there Shaker and of course it does depend on the severity of the mistakes.

[floo]

I think floo makes a lot of things up and harks back to a time that never was. We're not talking about 6 year olds are we? When our children get past 12 or so they must be allowed to choose their friends and have some privacy - and some trust from parents. If they don't they will rebel. I certainly would have.

You are a LIAR! I don't make anything up, I know exactly how it was. I make no apology at all for the way we brought our kids up, they are thoroughly decent adults with good reputations.

It is a pity some other parents don't ensure their under 16s are kept safe and protected, instead of letting them run riot as some seem to do.

[Harrowby Hall]

You are a LIAR! I don't make anything up, I know exactly how it was. I make no apology at all for the way we brought our kids up, they are thoroughly decent adults with good reputations.

It is a pity some other parents don't ensure their under 16s are kept safe and protected, instead of letting them run riot as some seem to do.

I do understand you anger here, Floo, but you are talking about a different time. That was then and this is now. Do you really think that you could isolate your children from the all-pervasive influences of today? Even today, I would suggest that most adults have negotiated an extremely difficult adolescence to become "thoroughly decent adults with good reputations".

[Robbie]

Another apology from me. I was only going on the impression I formed from what you said floo but it was no more than that.

[floo]

I do understand you anger here, Floo, but you are talking about a different time. That was then and this is now. Do you really think that you could isolate your children from the all-pervasive influences of today? Even today, I would suggest that most adults have negotiated an extremely difficult adolescence to become "thoroughly decent adults with good reputations".

I wouldn't wish to isolate my kids from the internet etc if they were young in this day and age, good grief I am not that much of a moron! I would be keeping a watchful eye on what they were up to, which surely any responsible parent should do. It would appear too many parents haven't a clue what their children are doing.

When our middle girl was 13 she announced one evening she was going out to a town some distance away with the Venture Scouts who were 18. There was no way on earth we would have permitted that! She wasn't exactly thrilled as you can imagine, and stated she would never be that mean to her kids! I frequently hear from her sons, particularly the younger one who is nearly 13, how mean she is being to them! Being a kind Granny I offer to phone the Social Services so he can be taken into care. Funny he changes his tune immediately, and says his very old Mum (43) isn't that bad after all.

[floo]

Another apology from me. I was only going on the impression I formed from what you said floo but it was no more than that.

Apology accepted. What exactly have I said, which gave you that impression? I am far from perfect, but I don't make stuff up. I do admit though that my life story is far from ordinary, even I find it hard to credit sometimes.

[Robbie]

I am sorry floo, I obviously misunderstood you but didn't mean to offend you. I'll be more careful from now on.
"I do admit though that my life story is far from ordinary, even I find it hard to credit sometimes."
That is intriguing! Especially for a person like me who has had a very ordinary life by most standards (not boring though - i hope).


More important than us and our adult kids is the problem of youngsters being dissatisfied with normal parts of their bodies, based on mucky stuff they've caught a glimpse of.