Author Topic: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism  (Read 1112 times)

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« on: July 05, 2018, 04:28:15 PM »
In 2016 it was reported that Britain will become one of the first countries to use the following non-legally binding  definition of antisemitism agreed at a 2016 conference of the Berlin-based International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA).

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

However, there seems to be a question mark over what exactly is part of the working definition and what isn't because the formally adopted text was accompanied in a press release by 11 examples of anti-semitism that weren't formally adopted by the IHRA members as being part of the definition.

It appears that nothing apart from the brief definition of antisemitism was formally adopted by the IHRA member states at their Bucharest meeting in 2016.

The IHRA appear reluctant to clarify the issue according to this article:

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/opposition-growing-use-ihra-definition-antisemtism/

I see the Labour Party seems to have decided that some of the examples of anti-semitism are not helpful in defining anti-semitism.

For example, if I have understood it correctly, the Labour Party appear to not be including the following 2 examples in their definition of anti-semitism:

  • Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

  • Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

I am surprised that people seem to think there can be one definition of a concept. What do other people think about the definition adopted by Labour for disciplinary purposes?
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SteveH

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 11:03:44 PM »
I am emphatically not anti-semitic, and I will get very cross if anyone suggests otherwise, but I'm not signing on the dotted line of someone else's definition of anti-semitism, necessarily. That one above, for example, which I've read before, attempts to render criticism of Israel out of bounds. Well, bollocks to that, for starters
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 11:06:29 PM by Steve H »
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Robbie

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 11:40:42 PM »
Agreed.

Jews aren't the only semitic people anyway. I hope that is recognised, it seems to be inferred from this part:-

"Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities"

Very vague. It's non legally binding anyway, only a guideline.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2018, 08:20:10 AM »
Is there not the tendency by some people to conflate "antisemitism" with "antiZionism" and in doing so suggest that people who have political views about the state of Israel and its establishment are "antisemitic"?

As Robbie has pointed out, "semitic" does not mean "jewish". Semitic is a linguistic term. Presumably "antisemitism" is aimed at Egyptians, Saudi Arabians and Maltese people as well.
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SteveH

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2018, 11:24:33 PM »
"Antisemitism" means prejudice against Jews, and only Jews. It is true that they are not the only semitic people, and that it it is thus a badly-chosen word, but there it is. To assume that it covers the other semitic peoples as well is to commit the etymological fallacy.
I once tried using "chicken" as a password, but was told it must contain a capital so I tried "chickenkiev"
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Robbie

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2018, 01:37:18 PM »
Yes I get that but this bit of the statement:- '...manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property' was confusing.
Badly written.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2018, 02:02:51 PM »
Yes I get that but this bit of the statement:- '...manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property' was confusing.
Badly written.
I suspect that is to allow for someone saying 'Hitler was right, and you should be gassed,you Jewish bastard' to someone they think is Jewish even if that person isn't.

Rhiannon

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2018, 03:09:34 PM »
Is there not the tendency by some people to conflate "antisemitism" with "antiZionism" and in doing so suggest that people who have political views about the state of Israel and its establishment are "antisemitic"?

As Robbie has pointed out, "semitic" does not mean "jewish". Semitic is a linguistic term. Presumably "antisemitism" is aimed at Egyptians, Saudi Arabians and Maltese people as well.

Howard Jacobsen wrote a very interesting piece not so long ago on how anti semitism and anti zionism are pretty much the same thing. However, it is possible to deplore the actions of the state of Israel while being neither antisemitic nor anti-zionist.

Nearly Sane

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2018, 08:23:05 AM »

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 11:22:28 AM »
I see the Labour National Executive Committee did not agree with the Labour Parliamentary Labour Party on this issue and did not vote to adopt all the examples accompanying the IHRA definition.

The drafter of what later became popularly known as the EUMC or IHRA definition of antisemitism, including its associated examples, U.S. attorney Kenneth S. Stern, stated that the purpose of the working definition was to try to standardise data collection about the incidence of antisemitic hate crime in different countries. It had never been intended that it be used as legal or regulatory device to curb academic or political free speech.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/why-the-man-who-drafted-the-ihra-definition-condemns-its-use/

Interesting piece here, suggesting the issue is Israel rather than antisemitism, and that the antisemitism crisis has been manufactured to try to neutralise the threat of a UK government that might be more critical of Israel.

http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2018/876-israel-is-the-real-problem.html


I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

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Nearly Sane

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 11:42:33 AM »
I have tried to follow the internal dispute of the Labour Party on this. It feels rather like Jason throwing the jewel into the warriors arising from the dragon's teeth. There are a few obviously anti Semitic Labour supporters. There are numpties in any grouping above 1 member. They aren't dominant and being critical of Israel doesn't make you one. The problem in the Labour Party is that while this isn't the reason for division, it's an easy way to divide it because of the existing division. Those fighting and up arguing that the other side is worse than anyone can imagine.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 11:51:42 AM by Nearly Sane »

wigginhall

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Re: The Labour Party's working definition of Anti-Semitism
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 01:18:20 PM »
There are so many strands in the Labour row.   As in above posts, no doubt there are genuine anti-semites, there are also anti-Zionists, and those critical of Israel, who are probably conflated with anti-semitism by others.  There are probably also those who want Corbyn out.  I don't know how you would separate these strands, I am just glad I am not involved.
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