The Problems of Biblical Translation

[Dicky Underpants]

I'm not especially referring to the problems of translating the Bible into modern languages, though those are huge enough in themselves. Since this is the Christian topic, I'm interested to hear what any pundits may have to say on the way this question reflects on the origins of Christianity itself.

The New Testament was written in Greek. The Hebrew Bible was known for centuries to the early Christians only in the Greek Septuagint translation. Jesus spoke Aramaic, a semitic language related to Hebrew. The New Testament thus represents a phenomenon unique in human history: a religion whose sacred texts were written in a language which would have been completely unintelligible to its founder.

In entering the Greek world, Plato's turf, the early Christians mixed biblical ideas into a Greek framework that often distorted their original meaning

Harvey Cox: The Future of Faith p.221

In the inter-testamental period, there were written a number of Greek documents ('The Apocrypha') which not only reveal the development of a number of theological ideas foreign to Hebrew thought, but in the words of Jesus ben Sirach, go to the heart of this problem:

You are urged therefore to read with good will and attention, and to be indulgent in cases where, despite out diligent labour in translating, we may seem to have rendered some phrases imperfectly. For what was originally expressed in Hebrew does not have exactly the same sense when translated into another language. Not only this work, but even the law itself, the prophecies, and the rest of the books differ not a little as originally expressed.

Ecclesiasticus, the Wisdom of Jesus ben Sirach
Prologue: 15-26

[jeremyp]

The New Testament thus represents a phenomenon unique in human history: a religion whose sacred texts were written in a language which would have been completely unintelligible to its founder.

I don't think that is a certainty. I think it is plausible that Jesus could speak Greek. Greek was the lingua franca of the region at the time. Asking if Jesus could speak Greek is a bit like asking if a random person from modern day Western Europe can speak English.

[SteveH]

Why do you assume Jesus couldn't speak Greek? It was the lingua franca throughout the empire, so he probably could.

[Walter]

Why do you assume Jesus couldn't speak Greek? It was the lingua franca throughout the empire, so he probably could.

and do you remember that time he played Glastonbury and brought everyone in the crowd a sardine sandwich ? what a lege!

[Dicky Underpants]

I don't think that is a certainty. I think it is plausible that Jesus could speak Greek. Greek was the lingua franca of the region at the time. Asking if Jesus could speak Greek is a bit like asking if a random person from modern day Western Europe can speak English.

I certainly overstated the case by saying "completely unintelligible", and didn't really add very much to my main points. I may have been reacting to my previous enthusiasm for embracing 'alternative' views of Jesus some years back, one of which suggested that he was totally immersed in Greek culture, may have worked as a tekton in Sepphoris, the previously Greek, then Roman dominated city near to his supposed home town (tekton possibly meaning 'mason' as well as carpenter), and even visited the theatre there. A close reading of the gospels (our only source for his supposed doings, after all) reveal that he was not that sort of chap at all. His dealings were almost entirely with the ordinary folk of Galilee south, poor fishermen, and socially ostracised people etc (though it does seem that he knew a few well-off women hmm...)
So, he may well have known a fair amount of Greek. This does not detract from the Hellenistic nature of a lot of the New Testament, despite its attempts to portray Jesus as the fulfilment of Jewish messianic prophecy.

[Dicky Underpants]

Why do you assume Jesus couldn't speak Greek? It was the lingua franca throughout the empire, so he probably could.

See my reply to Jeremy above.

Don't know if you're aware of these tomes. They argue along the lines suggested above.

The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark by
Dennis McDonald

How Jesus became Christ by Prof Barrie Wilson

[jeremyp]

I certainly overstated the case by saying "completely unintelligible", and didn't really add very much to my main points. I may have been reacting to my previous enthusiasm for embracing 'alternative' views of Jesus some years back, one of which suggested that he was totally immersed in Greek culture, may have worked as a tekton in Sepphoris, the previously Greek, then Roman dominated city near to his supposed home town (tekton possibly meaning 'mason' as well as carpenter), and even visited the theatre there. A close reading of the gospels (our only source for his supposed doings, after all) reveal that he was not that sort of chap at all. His dealings were almost entirely with the ordinary folk of Galilee south, poor fishermen, and socially ostracised people etc (though it does seem that he knew a few well-off women hmm...)
So, he may well have known a fair amount of Greek. This does not detract from the Hellenistic nature of a lot of the New Testament, despite its attempts to portray Jesus as the fulfilment of Jewish messianic prophecy.

I'm not completely certain what you are arguing here.

The whole New Testament is written in Greek. It is, almost by definition, Hellenistic. Jesus grew up in a land that had been ruled by Greeks and Romans for nearly 400 years. It was, almost by definition Hellenistic.

Objectively, we don't really know anything very much about Jesus' background, social standing or education. The gospels were all written much later than he died and were very thoroughly Greek in nature. There is some evidence that Christianity is a syncretism between Greek religious ideas and Judaism.

[Dicky Underpants]

I'm not completely certain what you are arguing here.

Forget my dubious original comments about Jesus' linguistic ability. The main theme I want to address is largely that which you refer to in your last paragraph:

Objectively, we don't really know anything very much about Jesus' background, social standing or education. The gospels were all written much later than he died and were very thoroughly Greek in nature. There is some evidence that Christianity is a syncretism between Greek religious ideas and Judaism.

This all follows on pretty well from the text from Ecclesiasticus which I quoted. Traditionally, Christians have liked to assert that the New Testament, and Jesus' ideas and teaching were a direct culmination of all matters referred to in the OT (and  there is a deliberate attempt in Matthew's gospel to emphasise the Jewishness of Jesus). However, given the difficulties of translation referred to by Ben Sirach*, and the Hellenistic nature of much of the gospels themselves, it can be inferred that no such seamless transfer of doctrines, let alone theology, can be asserted.
You yourself know only too well how such matters have dramatically influenced the Nativity stories. John's gospel in particular, apart from a few curious anomalies, is permeated with Hellenistic thought (and the book I mentioned to SteveH "The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark by Dennis McDonald" suggests likewise.)
 
And when we come to the (generally regarded) authentic letters of Paul, we see another version of the same problem. Though he makes many references to Old Testament details, his basic doctrines seem to jettison just about every significant teaching of the OT except two: the Original Sin of Adam and Eve, and Abraham's "Justification by Faith".

In other words, I think we agree on rather a lot.

*"You are urged therefore to read with good will and attention, and to be indulgent in cases where, despite out diligent labour in translating, we may seem to have rendered some phrases imperfectly. For what was originally expressed in Hebrew does not have exactly the same sense when translated into another language. Not only this work, but even the law itself, the prophecies, and the rest of the books differ not a little as originally expressed."
Ecclesiasticus

[Anchorman]

I'm not especially referring to the problems of translating the Bible into modern languages, though those are huge enough in themselves. Since this is the Christian topic, I'm interested to hear what any pundits may have to say on the way this question reflects on the origins of Christianity itself.

The New Testament was written in Greek. The Hebrew Bible was known for centuries to the early Christians only in the Greek Septuagint translation. Jesus spoke Aramaic, a semitic language related to Hebrew. The New Testament thus represents a phenomenon unique in human history: a religion whose sacred texts were written in a language which would have been completely unintelligible to its founder.
Harvey Cox: The Future of Faith p.221

In the inter-testamental period, there were written a number of Greek documents ('The Apocrypha') which not only reveal the development of a number of theological ideas foreign to Hebrew thought, but in the words of Jesus ben Sirach, go to the heart of this problem:

Ecclesiasticus, the Wisdom of Jesus ben Sirach
Prologue: 15-26

   



Jesus and His Apostles would have a knowledge of Koine - street- Greek; especially since they frequented Galilee,and manyof His followers were from that area.
Galilee was peppered with Greek-speakingsettlements; the nearest town to Capernaum was Sopporis, which was settled and used as a Greek and later Romano-Greek trading centre. The reference to the "Gaderine swine" is interesting; whether or not you accept the story. The fact that swineherds kept pigs in the area where Jews could not eat the flesh of pigs suggests that they were supplying the Greek settlers. Equally, fishermen would have to trade their wares with the localpopulace, and tax-gatherers would, of course, have to speak the settlers' language - the lingua franca of the time.
Since Christ read from the scrolls in Nazereth, He knew Hebrew, since the Torah was always handled in that language in synagogues - that meant that both Hebrew and Septuagint were available to Him.