Thursday's Euro-election.

[Roses]

I was listening to the Today programme a little while ago. There was an interview with one of the dozen or so Conservative leadership hopefuls.

What disturbed me was the attitude of the interviewee (I didn't catch his name) was that leaving the EU is a certainty and to fail to do so would be a "betrayal of the will of the people" and must precede any election.

They talk about, 'betrayal of the will of the people', when many people hadn't a clue for what they were voting.

[jeremyp]

Indeed - had the Labour leadership (i.e. Corbyn) campaigned passionately for remain, that tiny majority for leave in 2016 is unlikely to have happened.

Well I wasn't thinking that far back, but it is a fair comment.

[Udayana]

I was listening to the Today programme a little while ago. There was an interview with one of the dozen or so Conservative leadership hopefuls.

What disturbed me was the attitude of the interviewee (I didn't catch his name) was that leaving the EU is a certainty and to fail to do so would be a "betrayal of the will of the people" and must precede any election.

Could have been Jeremy Hunt? - also arguing against a no-deal exit. Did you also listen to Sumption's Reith Lecture straight after? - it touched on those attitudes in relation to referenda.

I find it quite depressing. We can re-imagine the past, but from this point looking forwards it doesn't look good whatever path is taken. A 2nd referendum with a super-majority mandated? I suspect one with a 52-48 the other way would not fix anything. 

[Harrowby Hall]

Yes, I did hear the Reith Lecture and subsequent discussion. I was pleased to hear a public denunciation of the referendum as a means of determining government policy. Margaret Thatcher did not like referenda - she considered them to be a tool of dictatorship.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes, I did hear the Reith Lecture and subsequent discussion. I was pleased to hear a public denunciation of the referendum as a means of determining government policy. Margaret Thatcher did not like referenda - she considered them to be a tool of dictatorship.

I don't have a fundamental issue with referendums, but they should only be used in very specific circumstances, specifically:

1. Where the Government of the day wishes to make a change which is of constitutional significance
2. That the choices offered are clear and deliverable by the Government offering that referendum

If the second criterion isn't met I can see the case for a decision in 2 stages - an advisory stage to provide a mandate to negotiate a 'clear and deliverable' proposal. Then a second confirmatory vote to determine whether there is a mandate for that actual proposal. This could apply to both the Scottish IndyRef and Brexit.

However a referendum should never be called if a government doesn't want to change something (as was the case for Brexit) as the government of the day (2015 general election) did not want to leave the EU.

[SteveH]

Yes, I did hear the Reith Lecture and subsequent discussion. I was pleased to hear a public denunciation of the referendum as a means of determining government policy. Margaret Thatcher did not like referenda - she considered them to be a tool of dictatorship.

That was about the only thing she ever got right.