Author Topic: The continued moral vacuum and basic idiocy of the Tory immigration policy  (Read 987 times)

Nearly Sane

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The idiotic effects of 'hostile environment' introduced by the outgoing incompetent lying racist PM continues.


https://www.thenational.scot/news/17765025.arran-businesswoman-loses-home-office-fight-remain-scotland/

Anchorman

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For those of you who don't know Arran, it's a stunningly beautiful island in the Firth of Clyde. I know it very well, and many of the communities there, and know that they welcomed this lady as 'new blood# strengthening the diversity on the island. That Arran has also welcomed thirty Syrian refugees to Brodick and Lochranxa, is testament to the open-minded attitude. I cannot fathon the insane policy which ripped a well liked family, contributing to the life, economy and culture of the community, from an island which needs continual influx of population. It's time immigration and residency were devolved issues.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Udayana

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... It's time immigration and residency were devolved issues.

How would that work?

This, from the same paper, suggests "the UK is nearing failed-state status":

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17765369.gripped-brexit-dysfunctional-uk-nearing-failed-state-status/
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Anchorman

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How would that work? 

This, from the same paper, suggests "the UK is nearing failed-state status":
 
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17765369.gripped-brexit-dysfunctional-uk-nearing-failed-state-status/
   

Would you prefer that I posted the same story from a unionist papersuch as the left leaning Daily Record, or right leaning Scotsman?
Both are equally disgusted, andbot think this should be a devolved matter. At least the Scottish government understands the needs of both community and individual where Westminster, it seems, does not.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Udayana

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Yes, I'm disgusted as well. However, I don't understand how this could be devolved, practically, without already having broken up the union.

If Scotland granted her a visa would she be allowed to live and/or work in England?
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

jeremyp

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The idiotic effects of 'hostile environment' introduced by the outgoing incompetent lying racist PM continues.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17765025.arran-businesswoman-loses-home-office-fight-remain-scotland/

I'm not sure how much Teresa May had to do with the rules these people have fallen foul of. I was working on a project for the Borders Agency at the time when the coalition government was elected. Even then, rules exactly like this existed, especially the stupid rule that says you had to apply for a new visa from outside the UK. We lost a member of staff because of that one. He went back to China to renew his visa and decided to stay there.
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Anchorman

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Yes, I'm disgusted as well. However, I don't understand how this could be devolved, practically, without already having broken up the union.

If Scotland granted her a visa would she be allowed to live and/or work in England?
   

If Scotland granted her theright to live and remain here, participating in the life of the nation,she couldbecome a naturalised Scotwith all that that entails.
The problems of the islands are not fully recognised by London. Keeping their populations at a sustainable level whilst maintaining the stability of these special communities is never easy. Surely those closer to the situation would be best place to act on it.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

ProfessorDavey

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If Scotland granted her theright to live and remain here, participating in the life of the nation,she couldbecome a naturalised Scotwith all that that entails.
The problems of the islands are not fully recognised by London. Keeping their populations at a sustainable level whilst maintaining the stability of these special communities is never easy. Surely those closer to the situation would be best place to act on it.
Nice pivot to nationalism Anchorman - I suspect you have a whole set of ways to turn any subject to nationalism that you can trot out at will.

However on you general point I fail to see how people in Edinburgh are in any better position to recognise the needs of rural communities than people in London. If you actually want real local decision making you'd need to bring it way closer to the case than London (or Edinburgh) might be to Arran (or Lincolnshire, or Anglesea etc). But that would be about devolution of decision making and subsidiarity rather than petty nationalism, and that, as we well know isn't your bag.

Anchorman

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Nice pivot to nationalism Anchorman - I suspect you have a whole set of ways to turn any subject to nationalism that you can trot out at will.

However on you general point I fail to see how people in Edinburgh are in any better position to recognise the needs of rural communities than people in London. If you actually want real local decision making you'd need to bring it way closer to the case than London (or Edinburgh) might be to Arran (or Lincolnshire, or Anglesea etc). But that would be about devolution of decision making and subsidiarity rather than petty nationalism, and that, as we well know isn't your bag.
   




Nod to nationalism, why not?
But I do have more than a passing aquaintance with Arran, and also with Mull, Iona and, to a lesser extent, Islay, and know somewhat of the special needs of these communities. Since its' reconvention in 1999, the Scots Parliament (both Labour and SNP administrations) has introduced new land lawssecuring thue rights of islanders and crofters - even allowing communities to buy the land from absentee landlords; it has also, mainly due to SNP and Lib/Dem representation from the northern and Western Isles, tried, with the limited powers at its' disposal, to encourage immigrants to the more remote islands - this policy has ben continued regardless of the administration in power.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

ProfessorDavey

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Nod to nationalism, why not?
Because it isn't relevant.

But I do have more than a passing aquaintance with Arran, and also with Mull, Iona and, to a lesser extent, Islay, and know somewhat of the special needs of these communities. Since its' reconvention in 1999, the Scots Parliament (both Labour and SNP administrations) has introduced new land lawssecuring thue rights of islanders and crofters - even allowing communities to buy the land from absentee landlords; it has also, mainly due to SNP and Lib/Dem representation from the northern and Western Isles, tried, with the limited powers at its' disposal, to encourage immigrants to the more remote islands - this policy has ben continued regardless of the administration in power.
I also have a passing acquaintance with those island too (except Islay) - what is your point.

The notion that inherently a new nation state would de facto be better positioned to support the needs of rural communities is nonsense.

As you have inferred the political pressure here (as always) is about the importance of rural voters to political parties looking to win power. And I struggle to see how that is any different in Scotland alone, than in the whole of the UK. Sure the population of the latter is skewed toward those who don't live in rural communities, but so is the former - indeed I think there is a greater dominance of the central belt in Scotland in population terms than there is of any single ares in the UK.

In fact the proportion of the population of Scotland living in rural areas (and their power as an electorate) is slightly lower than in England.

Moreover there is a far greater concentration of population in the central belt in Scotland (over 65% of the Scottish population live there) than there is in London and the South East in the Uk or even England, representing less than a quarter of the population.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 04:03:43 PM by ProfessorDavey »