'Ayia Napa: Foreign Office 'concerned' over Briton found guilty over rape claim'

[jeremyp]

Because we cannot establish objective truth

Yes we can for all practical purposes. You can either say "actually everything is subjective, so we can't know anything" and look all smug, or you can engage in the debate in good faith. You choose.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes we can for all practical purposes. You can either say "actually everything is subjective, so we can't know anything" and look all smug, or you can engage in the debate in good faith. You choose.

Ah a false dichotomy and one that misses the point about the issue with SteveH's post is exactly that.

[Nearly Sane]

Sorry, I didn't realise this forum is a court of law.

It's a simple logical argument. She said she was raped. If she was telling the truth then she was raped. No amount of mealy mouthed "it's not how the law works" is going to change that.

Might help if you read posts referring to how the law works as meaning what it means as regards how law works.

[Robbie]

We don't have the facts so can't come to any conclusion with certainty, however I am making a donation to her legal appeal fund.

Good, I want to as well but just read £80,000 has been raised so probably no need now. I believe her conviction should be overturned.

[SteveH]

Good, I want to as well but just read £80,000 has been raised so probably no need now. I believe her conviction should be overturned.

After due legal process and assuming she is vindicated, yes, but you can't just assume she was telling the truth.

[Robbie]

I get that Oliphant.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Do you agree that, if she said she was raped and she was telling the truth then rape occurred?

There are various elements of the crime of rape in English law. I do not know the details of how rape is prosecuted or defended in Cyprus - but it appears lack of consent is one element, same as in English law. 

In English law - the mens rea element required for rape means she could be telling the truth that she did not consent but the prosecution would still need to show that the boys who had sex with her did not reasonably believe that she consented to the sex in order for them to have committed the crime of rape.

The 'reasonable belief' element means that it is not what the boys actually believed at the time that is important but whether a reasonable person in the same circumstances would believe that she was not consenting to sex when he was having sex with her. I think I am fairly safe in assuming that a reasonable person would not believe they had her consent if they had to hold the girl down in order to have sex with her.

However, in English law if the boys have evidence to show it was reasonable for them to believe that she consented to the sex, then they do not have the mens rea for rape.

Even if she froze, or was not forceful in fighting back, in English law the boys would still need to show they took steps to establish her consent to sex. In English law the burden is on the boys to show their belief in her consent is reasonable and it is up to the jury to decide based on the evidence, if the belief was indeed reasonable. I do not know where the burden of proof is in Cyprus law in relation to consent and what the boys believed at the time they had sex with her, and whether there is an objective element that their belief in her consent was reasonable.

[Robbie]

Twelve of them - difficult to believe she would consent to twelve one after the other.
I'm not an expert but from what I've read of alleged 'gang rapes', here and in the USA, two police officers working together thoroughly question each of the accused separately trying to draw out the truth, gently. There's usually one (maybe more than one in this particular case), who was reluctant to take part but was intimidated and they crack. Maybe different police methods in Cyprus.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Twelve of them - difficult to believe she would consent to twelve one after the other.
I'm not an expert but from what I've read of alleged 'gang rapes', here and in the USA, two police officers working together thoroughly question each of the accused separately trying to draw out the truth, gently. There's usually one (maybe more than one in this particular case), who was reluctant to take part but was intimidated and they crack. Maybe different police methods in Cyprus.

It doesn't seem like the Cyprus police took much time investigating the rape. Maybe their methods in sexual assault cases are not very conducive to securing a conviction. I don't know what the mobile phone footage shows - i have not read any details in the media - but it would not surprise me if the Cyprus police interpreted what they saw and what the boys said in a way that was prejudiced against the complainant. It is alleged the the sex with one boy was consensual and then she says his friends barged in, and she was held down and prevented from leaving the room and raped by multiple people. The pathologist who examined the girl said her injuries were consistent with her version of events.

I have no idea how much of the sex was filmed, but it's certainly possible the police are under pressure to protect the image of Cyprus and its tourist industry, and have a low opinion of the foreigners who come to Ayia Napa to party, and coerced the girl into retracting her rape allegation. 

This story has highlighted the risks for women travelling to these party resorts. The travel firm that the girl used to book her working holiday has ended its involvement with the resort in Ayia Napa, citing safety concerns for women. The British media is focusing on Cyprus but who knows how many similar stories exist for similar party resorts in other countries involving other nationals.