Author Topic: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK  (Read 1764 times)

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7958
Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« on: February 19, 2020, 04:49:54 PM »
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/06/uk/franklin-graham-uk-tour-scli-intl/index.html

The late Billy Graham's son, Franklin, is a highly unpleasant homophobic and racist bigot who preaches a very extremist Christian message. Apparently the venues he is supposed to have visited have told him he isn't welcome. JOLLY GOOD!
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2020, 01:27:51 PM »
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/06/uk/franklin-graham-uk-tour-scli-intl/index.html

The late Billy Graham's son, Franklin, is a highly unpleasant homophobic and racist bigot who preaches a very extremist Christian message. Apparently the venues he is supposed to have visited have told him he isn't welcome. JOLLY GOOD!

Isn't is terrible when the few can make the masses cringe and stop someone else giving a different spin on the belief they try and bully people to accept as normal if they do not comply to their
beliefs.

Franklin Graham I have not heard speak. But if he says he believes being Homosexual us wrong or that Islamic beliefs which cause the 9/11 or the Manchester arena bomb is wrong is that really
a wrong belief or homophobic and racist. NO it isn't because the trust is that Islam kills their homosexual men immediately in their own country. Is he racist for believing this to be wrong?
As for homosexuality  if we being not homosexual believe sex between men and women right  does that mean that homosexuals are heteraphobic  is to be scared of being straight?
Does being one cancel the other and vice versa.

You would really want to be forced to have sex with a woman because someone believes it is the only way?  Sexuality is different for us all. But what is wrong is if you treat them differently
because of that sexuality and if you try to force others to believe that all is right when they do not believe it is.

A persons beliefs do not make them homophobic or a bigot if they do no harm. But you support the belief he is racist to Islam when  people acting under the banner murdered innocent men, women and children of all ages,  Tells me something is wrong with your way of thinking. Stop using homophobia and racism and come up with an argument against the mans beliefs.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7958
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2020, 01:35:46 PM »
Trust you to support that nasty piece of the proverbial.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2020, 01:37:30 PM »
Trust you to support that nasty piece of the proverbial.

I see you cannot answer or argue the points because you have never really thought about what you believe.
A bigot of your own making and no support for anyone just telling the truth.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7958
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2020, 01:39:11 PM »
I see you cannot answer or argue the points because you have never really thought about what you believe.
A bigot of your own making and no support for anyone just telling the truth.

Surely truth and Sass is an oxymoron where matters of religion is concerned! :D
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2020, 01:45:41 PM »
Surely truth and Sass is an oxymoron where matters of religion is concerned! :D

Words misused and in wrong context.  Need I say more... I know what I believe and  in whom I believe. I also know the world and people in it.
You need to do the same if you are to be able to argue points about the bible and a persons beliefs.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10908
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2020, 06:10:10 PM »
Sassy do you really expect me to take lessons on morality from a man who cannot even maintain a basic logical consistent approach to his views of morality:

Quote
Franklin Graham, son of the Rev. Billy Graham, was a vocal critic of then-President Bill Clinton’s sexual improprieties and wrote a Wall Street Journal op-ed titled “Clinton’s Sins Aren’t Private” in 1998. But after President Donald Trump was accused of having had an illicit affair with adult film actor Stormy Daniels, Graham told The Associated Press it’s “nobody’s business.”

I would suggest he doesn't have the foggiest idea what morals are.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2020, 10:12:17 AM »
Trust you to support that nasty piece of the proverbial.





I don't share Graham's rabid views on homosexuals; I understand why publicly owned venues have declined his meetings, but banning?
Unless he has infringed the law, incited homphobia, and this can be proved in a court of law, then he has a right to come here and speak, even though many, including many Christians, are repelled by his message.
Free speech is something we need to cherish.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Enki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3866
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2020, 11:58:01 AM »




I don't share Graham's rabid views on homosexuals; I understand why publicly owned venues have declined his meetings, but banning?
Unless he has infringed the law, incited homphobia, and this can be proved in a court of law, then he has a right to come here and speak, even though many, including many Christians, are repelled by his message.
Free speech is something we need to cherish.

I agree, Anchorman. It seems some of his views are pretty obnoxious. I also agree about not banning him from coming to this country,  although I'm not sure that anyone on this forum has actually expressed a wish to do so.
Sometimes I wish my first word was 'quote,' so that on my death bed, my last words could be 'end quote.'
Steven Wright

Udayana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5478
  • βε ηερε νοω
    • The Byrds - My Back Pages
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2020, 12:24:05 PM »




I don't share Graham's rabid views on homosexuals; I understand why publicly owned venues have declined his meetings, but banning?
Unless he has infringed the law, incited homphobia, and this can be proved in a court of law, then he has a right to come here and speak, even though many, including many Christians, are repelled by his message.
Free speech is something we need to cherish.

He has not been banned AFAIK. However the Home Secretary has the power to refuse entry to any foreign visitor irrespective of whether they have been convicted of any offence.
 
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2020, 02:05:48 PM »
He has not been banned AFAIK. However the Home Secretary has the power to refuse entry to any foreign visitor irrespective of whether they have been convicted of any offence.
 
   



That's another power that should be a devolved matter.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Outrider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14488
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2020, 09:58:35 AM »
Isn't is terrible when the few can make the masses cringe and stop someone else giving a different spin on the belief they try and bully people to accept as normal if they do not comply to their beliefs

You mean like how the increasingly marginal fringe of the British public that is actively Christian can still peddle the idea that there's something immoral about gay people to the point that they'll campaign against giving orphaned or abandoned children a loving home?  Like that, you mean?

Quote
Franklin Graham I have not heard speak. But if he says he believes being Homosexual us wrong or that Islamic beliefs which cause the 9/11 or the Manchester arena bomb is wrong is that really a wrong belief or homophobic and racist.

No, yes and arguably, depending on whether you intepret 'racism' to include the broad cross-over between religion and cultural practices in areas dominated by those religions.  Just like most Western Christians would decry the violence meted out on gay people in Uganda, would decry 'corrective rape' of lesbians in South Africa even whilst the perpetrators report their motivations as explicitly implementing their Christian belief, so there are entire communities of Muslims who suggest that terrorists claiming Islam as their motivation are corrupting that faith.

Quote
NO it isn't because the trust is that Islam kills their homosexual men immediately in their own country.

No, the truth is some countries that are predominantly - or even officially - have an intepretation of Islam that mandates severe punishment for homosexuality just like some countries that are predominantly Christian do.  That doesn't put the blame on to Christianity or Islam; an ideology can't pull a trigger, can't open a trapdoor, can't pick up the lash - people are responsible for these actions, and whilst they can cite religion as their motivation so others can oppose them in the name of exactly the same nonsense.

Quote
Is he racist for believing this to be wrong?

My personal feeling, no, just crass and obnoxious.

Quote
As for homosexuality  if we being not homosexual believe sex between men and women right  does that mean that homosexuals are heteraphobic  is to be scared of being straight?
Does being one cancel the other and vice versa.

So much fail in so little space is impressive.  Homosexuality is about feeling attraction for people of the same sex, it doesn't involve taking the entirety of the straight world hostage and forcing them to take part - homophobia is about feeling the need to impose restrictions gay people's right to the exact same conduct as straight people.  I'm not aware of any significant attempt by gay people to do that the other way.

Quote
You would really want to be forced to have sex with a woman because someone believes it is the only way?

If you want a discussion about people being forced into sexual servitude there's an active discussion about all those Biblical references to unmarried women in conquered countries being taken as slaves that you can go and attempt to defend, if you wish.

Quote
Sexuality is different for us all. But what is wrong is if you treat them differently because of that sexuality and if you try to force others to believe that all is right when they do not believe it is.

And Mr Graham wants exactly that. He supported North Carolina's proposition to prohibit gay marriages and gay domestic partnerships, supported Russia's ban on depicting gay relationships as normal or acceptable, and advocates for the long-disproven torture/treatment methodology of 'conversion therapy' being inflicted on gay people.

Quote
A persons beliefs do not make them homophobic or a bigot if they do no harm.

Actually, yeah they do.  It becomes problematic when they're publicly broadcast, when they're given any sort of official or social sanction, because that does active harm, that tells gay people that this sort of attitude is considered acceptable.

Quote
But you support the belief he is racist to Islam when  people acting under the banner murdered innocent men, women and children of all ages,  Tells me something is wrong with your way of thinking. Stop using homophobia and racism and come up with an argument against the mans beliefs.

That is the argument against his beliefs - he advocates for discrimination against against gay people because they're gay, he taints all Muslims with the extremist brush, but wipes clean all Christians of the same taint.

O.

[/quote]
Universes are forever, not just for creation...

New Atheism - because, apparently, there's a use-by date on unanswered questions.

Eminent Pedant, Interpreter of Heretical Writings, Unwarranted Harvester of Trite Nomenclature, Church of Debatable Saints

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7958
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2020, 10:36:07 AM »
You mean like how the increasingly marginal fringe of the British public that is actively Christian can still peddle the idea that there's something immoral about gay people to the point that they'll campaign against giving orphaned or abandoned children a loving home?  Like that, you mean?

No, yes and arguably, depending on whether you intepret 'racism' to include the broad cross-over between religion and cultural practices in areas dominated by those religions.  Just like most Western Christians would decry the violence meted out on gay people in Uganda, would decry 'corrective rape' of lesbians in South Africa even whilst the perpetrators report their motivations as explicitly implementing their Christian belief, so there are entire communities of Muslims who suggest that terrorists claiming Islam as their motivation are corrupting that faith.

No, the truth is some countries that are predominantly - or even officially - have an intepretation of Islam that mandates severe punishment for homosexuality just like some countries that are predominantly Christian do.  That doesn't put the blame on to Christianity or Islam; an ideology can't pull a trigger, can't open a trapdoor, can't pick up the lash - people are responsible for these actions, and whilst they can cite religion as their motivation so others can oppose them in the name of exactly the same nonsense.

My personal feeling, no, just crass and obnoxious.

So much fail in so little space is impressive.  Homosexuality is about feeling attraction for people of the same sex, it doesn't involve taking the entirety of the straight world hostage and forcing them to take part - homophobia is about feeling the need to impose restrictions gay people's right to the exact same conduct as straight people.  I'm not aware of any significant attempt by gay people to do that the other way.

If you want a discussion about people being forced into sexual servitude there's an active discussion about all those Biblical references to unmarried women in conquered countries being taken as slaves that you can go and attempt to defend, if you wish.

And Mr Graham wants exactly that. He supported North Carolina's proposition to prohibit gay marriages and gay domestic partnerships, supported Russia's ban on depicting gay relationships as normal or acceptable, and advocates for the long-disproven torture/treatment methodology of 'conversion therapy' being inflicted on gay people.

Actually, yeah they do.  It becomes problematic when they're publicly broadcast, when they're given any sort of official or social sanction, because that does active harm, that tells gay people that this sort of attitude is considered acceptable.

That is the argument against his beliefs - he advocates for discrimination against against gay people because they're gay, he taints all Muslims with the extremist brush, but wipes clean all Christians of the same taint.

O.

A very good post. Graham's freedom of speech in denigrating gays encourages other likeminded pieces of scum to verbally abuse gays or even physically abuse them, and some would claim to be doing it in the name of god, the sick psychos!
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10908
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2020, 11:07:29 PM »
The irony runs deep on this one.

Franklin has expended much energy to try to get businesses and religious organisations exemptions so that they can choose to discriminate against gay people.

Now it's happening to him he's going to sue.

Poor little snowflake.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7958
Re: Franklin Graham not welcome in the UK
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2020, 10:23:04 AM »
The irony runs deep on this one.

Franklin has expended much energy to try to get businesses and religious organisations exemptions so that they can choose to discriminate against gay people.

Now it's happening to him he's going to sue.

Poor little snowflake.

That guy is a pathetic creep, who needs a taste of his own medicine.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."