Having Humanism rammed down my throat.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Straw man argument.

My point was that humanism has been around for considerably longer than christianity (indeed just this morning on radio 4 there was a programme about the ancient Greeks that specifically mentioned humanism), unlike christianity it has sprung up independently in different places and cultures unlike christianity (confirming its broader universality), and that it holding to humanist principles is not incompatible with being a theist.

That HumanistsUK holds a bespoke set of views linking humanism with atheism - so what, they don't define humanism throughout the world and throughout history. Methodists don't believe you should drink alcohol. If you are being consistent in your views Vlad you must surely think that drinking alcohol is not consistent with being a christian - do you Vlad?

The Christian view is Christ and him crucified.
Only theological ignorance could state that abstinence from Alcohol was a christian view.

[Roses]

The Christian view is Christ and him crucified.
Only theological ignorance could stae that abstinence fro. Alcohol was a christian view.

That sentence makes no sense at all.

[ProfessorDavey]

The Christian view is Christ and him crucified.
Only theological ignorance could state that abstinence from Alcohol was a christian view.

Methodists would disagree.

Humanism is a philosophical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively.

Only philosophical ignorance could state that atheism and humanism are one and the same - although HumanistsUK might disagree.

[ProfessorDavey]

That sentence makes no sense at all.

Maybe Vlad is drunk - bit early for that I'd have thought, but might explain his post.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Methodists would disagree.

Humanism is a philosophical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively.

Only philosophical ignorance could state that atheism and humanism are one and the same - although HumanistsUK might disagree.

Methodists often agree with abstinence...and they would agree with methodism.......but I doubt many would say that either abstinence nor even methodism were the take home message of Christianity.

[ProfessorDavey]

Methodists often agree with abstinence...and they would agree with methodism.......but I doubt many would say that either abstinence nor even methodism were the take home message of Christianity.

Humanists often are atheist ... but I doubt that many would say that atheism was the take home message of humanism.

The point is that you do not need to be atheist to accept the tenets of humanism - and I'd be pretty confident that over the centuries the vast majority of humanists (i.e. those who agree with a philosophical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively) will have also believed in god.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Humanists often are atheist ... but I doubt that many would say that atheism was the take home message of humanism.

The point is that you do not need to be atheist to accept the tenets of humanism - and I'd be pretty confident that over the centuries the vast majority of humanists (i.e. those who agree with a philosophical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively) will have also believed in god.

You are relating a history there Professor. But we are where we are......Humanism UK, the atheist movement.

[ProfessorDavey]

You are relating a history there Professor.

So you accept the history of humanism then Vlad - a ethical philosophy that has existed for far longer than christianity - that has demonstrated greater universality than christianity as it has sprung up independently in places as diverse as Greece, China, India and the Americas.

But we are where we are......Humanism UK, the atheist movement.

You can't even get the name right can you Vlad. And HumanistsUK never has been, nor is currently and I suspect never will be the global arbiter of humanism.

There are Christian Socialist organisations - does that mean somehow that all Christians must be socialists and that all socialists must be Christians.

[SteveH]

Having Islam Ramadan my throat.
Having the Edsels ramalamadingdong my throat.

[jeremyp]

Oh so people of antiquity once slated for being "bronze aged goatherders"

That characterisation is often used to describe the people who wrote the Bible and I hate it. The Bible wasn't written in the Bronze age - that was mostly over by the first millennium BC in the Levant. It also wasn't written by goat herders, unless they were extremely well educated goat herders who could write.

were really sophisticated Alice Robert's and Andrew Copson types.

Who says you have to be sophisticated to live by the tenets of humanism?

Humanism may once have been an all inclusive thing but alas has lturned into a largely atheist only club.

But non atheists aren't excluded. It's their choice not to be humanists.

[SteveH]

Humanism may once have been an all inclusive thing but alas has turned into a largely atheist only club.

For what it's worth, I consider myself both a Christian and a humanist, and I'm sure there are many more at the liberal ends of both Christianity and Humanism.

[jeremyp]

For what it's worth, I consider myself both a Christian and a humanist, and I'm sure there are many more at the liberal ends of both Christianity and Humanism.

Sorry. Humanism is an atheist only club. If you were a humanist, it would demolish Vlad's argument.