Faith

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

What is faith? Here is something about it.

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2016/04/05/faith/

Cheers.

Sriram

[Outrider]

...direct experience but without sensory inputs...

How can you have a direct experience of something without sensory inputs? That's just an hallucination.

O.

[Dicky Underpants]

Hi everyone,

What is faith? Here is something about it.

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2016/04/05/faith/

Cheers.

Sriram

The Catholics say it's a gift.

[Sriram]

The ability to discern and recognize subtle forces and patterns in our lives....and behind the functioning of our own minds....is a unique ability. Not everyone seems to have it. It can therefore be considered a 'gift'. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

How can you have a direct experience of something without sensory inputs? That's just an hallucination.

O.

If we live in a block universe though our consciousness is probably  located outwith that universe so we may be detecting outwith the block universe.

[ProfessorDavey]

If we live in a block universe though our consciousness is probably  located outwith that universe so we may be detecting outwith the block universe.

What on earth is a block universe.

And where is your evidence that consciousness is located outside the universe Vlad? There is a huge amount of evidence that clearly demonstrates that consciousness resides as a function of complex neurophysiology, which of course is located smack bang within our universe.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What on earth is a block universe.

And where is your evidence that consciousness is located outside the universe Vlad? There is a huge amount of evidence that clearly demonstrates that consciousness resides as a function of complex neurophysiology, which of course is located smack bang within our universe.

If there was a universe in which the past present and future all exist then effectively it is a static block.
If consciousness is of that universe it too is static and the passage of time or change an illusion. In otherwords consciousness cannot be inside the universe but outside scanning through it.

[Sebastian Toe]

If there was a universe in which the past present and future all exist then effectively it is a static block.
If consciousness is of that universe it too is static and the passage of time or change an illusion. In otherwords consciousness cannot be inside the universe but outside scanning through it.

Scanning through the past and the present and the future?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

"Faith can generally be of two kinds….Blind Faith and Real Faith."

Oh dear. How then would you determine that the objects of your "real" faith aren't just your imagination at work too?   

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

The ability to discern and recognize subtle forces and patterns in our lives....and behind the functioning of our own minds....is a unique ability. Not everyone seems to have it. It can therefore be considered a 'gift'.

You might want to think about justifying your assertion that “it” exists at all before worrying too much about calling it a “gift”. All faith should be treated as “blind faith” until and unless you can do that. 

Good luck with it though.

[Sriram]

If you have the experience you will know....not otherwise.

[Outrider]

If we live in a block universe though our consciousness is probably  located outwith that universe so we may be detecting outwith the block universe.

You're going to have to explain the reasoning behind the jump from 'block time' to 'therefore consciousness exists outside of the universe'.

If consciousness is of that universe it too is static and the passage of time or change an illusion. In otherwords consciousness cannot be inside the universe but outside scanning through it.

If this is the reasoning, it manifestly fails. That from the exterior time can be seen to be in existence across the full-breadth in parallel in no way places restrictions on the subjective experience from within.

Moscow is out of sight from me in at least one of the dimensions in which we operate, but with sufficient distance in another dimension you'd be able to identify that both exist - that does not mean that my vision is necessarily so limited in scope that it must exist outside of the universe, but quite the opposite that it is limited by the fact that it has to operate within the universe. Similarly that our consciousness is limited in the extent to which it can directly perceive the universe is an indication that it is contained entirely within the universe, not that it exists outside of the universe where the limitations would be removed.

O.

[ProfessorDavey]

If there was a universe in which the past present and future all exist then effectively it is a static block.

Exist at the same time ... or exist at different times. Surely the former would be a tautology as past, present and future are human derived terms to explain the passage of time as we see it. If the latter then this is surely just how we already perceive the universe.

If consciousness is of that universe it too is static ...

First we need to determine what you mean by that universe, but regardless I don't see why you can conclude that consciousness is static, nor indeed what that actually means or its relevance.

... and the passage of time or change an illusion.

Sure there is plenty of discussion as to whether the passage of time is objectively real or merely a subjective perception (better term than illusion).

In otherwords consciousness cannot be inside the universe but outside scanning through it.

Nope - don't see how you get to that conclusion - even if the passage of time is a subjective perception why would that mean that consciousness lies outside the universe. That makes no sense. Consciousness is a human derived term to describe a subjective perception that arises from our neurophysiology. Whichever way you look at it this still resides firmly within our universe.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

If you have the experience you will know....not otherwise.

No, you’re overreaching. “Know” entails knowledge rather than, to use your phrase, blind faith. If you want your claim of knowing something rather than just believing it to be taken seriously then you need a means of verifying the claim – both to others, and to yourself.

Before breakfast I could  line up nine people beside you – one would claim to “know” they can tell fortunes, then next “knows” he can divine underground water sources, the next “knows” herself to be in communications with aliens etc. Let’s say that all of them think they have “gifts” denied to the rest of us too – and that when challenged about their claims they all reply “If you have the experience you will know....not otherwise.”. 

Can you think of any reason to take your claim of knowledge more seriously than their claims of knowledge? No? Then what you have is just blind faith – “real faith” is an oxymoron.