Author Topic: WUMS for Jesus!  (Read 43225 times)

floo

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2015, 08:35:31 AM »
At least science has some evidence to interpret, religion has absolutely none.
Citation required (and not one of your own statements, Floo)   ;)

Read your science books it is all there. People of faith will never be likely to back up their belief system with any evidence to support it. I would back science, against religion, which will one day have it all done and dusted, imo.

Hope

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #76 on: April 23, 2015, 01:34:17 PM »
Read your science books it is all there. People of faith will never be likely to back up their belief system with any evidence to support it. I would back science, against religion, which will one day have it all done and dusted, imo.
Sorry, that is not a citation, floo.  Not only is it simply an opinion (and therefore of no weight in the matter) it is - as science is anyway - based, to some degree, on human suppositions.  After all, science and scientific theories and discoveries are all governed by human understanding.  Let's take an example from today's news.  Research into asthma has discovered that a drug which was developed to combat osteo-arthritis, but proved inefficient, has now been shown to be efficacious on asthma. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-32418080

This doesn't tell the whole story - the bit about the osteo-arthritis drug was mentioned in BBC Breakfast this morning.

So, we are still awaiting a citation for the comment you made in Reply #74
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Shaker

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #77 on: April 23, 2015, 01:45:16 PM »
After all, science and scientific theories and discoveries are all governed by human understanding.
Of course they are. There is no other kind.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Hope

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #78 on: April 23, 2015, 02:03:20 PM »
After all, science and scientific theories and discoveries are all governed by human understanding.
Of course they are. There is no other kind.
So, there is no objective, externally corroborated evidence, if that is the case.  How does that differ from what is regularly thrown at religion as having no external corroboration?
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Shaker

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #79 on: April 23, 2015, 03:44:01 PM »
So, there is no objective, externally corroborated evidence, if that is the case.
Yes there is - scientific evidence is corroborated by other scientists via the processes of (amongst others) replicability (where applicable), blind trials, double blind trials even, anonymous peer review and what have you.
Quote
How does that differ from what is regularly thrown at religion as having no external corroboration?
See previous answer.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

jjohnjil

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #80 on: April 23, 2015, 03:51:08 PM »
After all, science and scientific theories and discoveries are all governed by human understanding.
Of course they are. There is no other kind.
So, there is no objective, externally corroborated evidence, if that is the case.  How does that differ from what is regularly thrown at religion as having no external corroboration?

It differs in that there are hundreds of thousands of scientist the world over who study every subject with extremely sophisticated instruments.  They test and retest and throw their theories out to the rest of the scientific community to check for themselves.  Only when exhaustive tests and trials have been carried out do they tell us, the general public, of their findings.

Compare this to the ancients who did their best to guess at everything and wrote it down in your Big Book of Magic!

floo

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #81 on: April 23, 2015, 03:53:23 PM »
Good post JJ.

wigginhall

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #82 on: April 23, 2015, 03:56:33 PM »
You can see this with the Higgs Boson particle, which had been theoretically predicted, but needed to be tested via various experiments.  These initial tests appear to confirm the prediction, but this is just the beginning.  More tests are now beginning, 'more data is required', as the phrase goes, and eventually other groups of scientists will probably attempt replication, so long as the equipment can be built.  Results are then written up, and published via peer review, and are open to debate and criticism.  It's a long, arduous and magnificent process.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Shaker

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #83 on: April 23, 2015, 04:01:48 PM »
Brilliant post wiggy.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ippy

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #84 on: April 23, 2015, 04:05:18 PM »
After all, science and scientific theories and discoveries are all governed by human understanding.
Of course they are. There is no other kind.
So, there is no objective, externally corroborated evidence, if that is the case.  How does that differ from what is regularly thrown at religion as having no external corroboration?

That part of your post above Hope: "regularly thrown at religion as having no external corroboration"? this is only thrown at religion because religion has no external corroboration? Be fair.

ippy

wigginhall

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2015, 04:08:30 PM »
Brilliant post wiggy.

Why thank you, young man.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Shaker

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #86 on: April 23, 2015, 04:11:12 PM »
It's been a long while since I've been called that!  ;D
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

floo

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #87 on: April 23, 2015, 04:12:24 PM »
It's been a long while since I've been called that!  ;D

Didn't you know 100 is the new 80? :P

Hope

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2015, 07:41:36 PM »
That part of your post above Hope: "regularly thrown at religion as having no external corroboration"? this is only thrown at religion because religion has no external corroboration? Be fair.
What isn't fair, though, ippy is there is little or no external corroboration for science either.  Where is the external 'adjudicator' saying to scientists - "Yup, you've got that interpreted correctly", or "Nope, you're missing the point".  As things stand, everything scientific is adjudicated by humanity, not by the information or material that is being commented or experimented on.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

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Shaker

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #89 on: April 23, 2015, 08:06:42 PM »
What isn't fair, though, ippy is there is little or no external corroboration for science either.  Where is the external 'adjudicator' saying to scientists - "Yup, you've got that interpreted correctly", or "Nope, you're missing the point".

Other scientists - lots of them - working according to the demonstrably successful tenets of the scientific method.

Quote
As things stand, everything scientific is adjudicated by humanity, not by the information or material that is being commented or experimented on.

Layers of sedimentary rock, molecules and galaxies tend to be reticent on such matters.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #90 on: April 23, 2015, 08:13:05 PM »
What isn't fair, though, ippy is there is little or no external corroboration for science either.  Where is the external 'adjudicator' saying to scientists - "Yup, you've got that interpreted correctly", or "Nope, you're missing the point".

Other scientists - lots of them - working according to the demonstrably successful tenets of the scientific method.

Yes this is the case with the string theorists and multiverse scholars who are coming in for some stick at the moment.
Carroll's answer to his critics as far as I can see is to wave the philosophical materialist ''whang'' at them.

Shaker

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #91 on: April 23, 2015, 08:17:32 PM »
250 points!

Your poster boy, Prof. Tegmark who thinks it likely that a multiverse may be testable, doesn't come in for much stick from you does he?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 08:19:36 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #92 on: April 23, 2015, 08:23:06 PM »
At least science has some evidence to interpret, religion has absolutely none.
Citation required (and not one of your own statements, Floo)   ;)

Read your science books it is all there. People of faith will never be likely to back up their belief system with any evidence to support it. I would back science, against religion, which will one day have it all done and dusted, imo.
False dichotomy with promissory materialism .....quelle plonkeuse.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2015, 08:52:15 PM »
250 points!

Your poster boy, Prof. Tegmark who thinks it likely that a multiverse may be testable, doesn't come in for much stick from you does he?
Well.......... I don't come in for much stick from him.

Shaker

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #94 on: April 23, 2015, 09:03:11 PM »
No ... but if he even knew you existed and knew how you attempt to argue on here you would  ;D
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ippy

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2015, 09:20:00 AM »
That part of your post above Hope: "regularly thrown at religion as having no external corroboration"? this is only thrown at religion because religion has no external corroboration? Be fair.
What isn't fair, though, ippy is there is little or no external corroboration for science either.  Where is the external 'adjudicator' saying to scientists - "Yup, you've got that interpreted correctly", or "Nope, you're missing the point".  As things stand, everything scientific is adjudicated by humanity, not by the information or material that is being commented or experimented on.
 
Science and religion stand or fall by the evidence of their ideas.

Ippy

Sassy

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #96 on: April 26, 2015, 12:34:43 AM »
Uh oh ... spot the one who doesn't know what theory means ...  ::)
Even a simpleton would not have written the above.
We know what theory means in science. Pity you don't.

Abusive, ignorant and proud a hat trick of my least favourite things.

Below you Jak,

If you have nothing to say about the topic why not hit the road Jak.... after all abusive, ignorant and proud isn't my bag and sorry to disappoint your ego... you are no good at it, either...
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #97 on: April 26, 2015, 07:52:12 AM »
250 points!

Your poster boy, Prof. Tegmark who thinks it likely that a multiverse may be testable, doesn't come in for much stick from you does he?
Yes and that's the difference Tegmark respects falsifiability. Carroll would like to see it removed from science...is that because he wants his philosophy to be classed as science I wonder?

Hope

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #98 on: May 12, 2015, 08:27:01 AM »
Other scientists - lots of them - working according to the demonstrably successful tenets of the scientific method.
So you're happy with the fact that, over the years, particular processes or events have been interpreted in different ways by different scientists all using the same methodology?  Where's the evidence value in that?

Quote
Layers of sedimentary rock, molecules and galaxies tend to be reticent on such matters.
Do they?  I've always understood geologists, molecular chemists and cosmologists to feel that sedimentary rocks, molecules and galaxies 'tell' us a lot about the macro- and micro-environments in which we live.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Shaker

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Re: WUMS for Jesus!
« Reply #99 on: May 12, 2015, 08:29:03 AM »
Quote from: Hope
So you're happy with the fact that, over the years, particular processes or events have been interpreted in different ways by different scientists all using the same methodology?  Where's the evidence value in that?
Examples?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.