WUMS for Jesus!

[floo]

If you were told from birth you would burn in hell if you didn't get 'saved' you might not be too thrilled about Christianity either! It is the unpleasant 'you must be 'saved' dogma', that disgusts me, when it is used in an abusive manner. As I have often said I don't have a problem with mainstream Christians who have a live and let live approach!

I am aware of your background, Floo - you've shared them with us here and elsewhere on a number of occasions.    Of the hundreds of Christians I know, I can only think of one person other than you who shares such an experience.  On the other hand, I know lots of people who were brought up in Christian families/non-religious families who have rejected/accepted Christianity in their teenage and adult years.

People are still being emotionally abused by this abusive dogma today. The Pentecostal churches spew it out!

[Hope]

People are still being emotionally abused by this abusive dogma today. The Pentecostal churches spew it out!

I know people who were brought up in Pentecostalism, who have chosen to reject their upbringing - but none are as vitupertive as you.

[floo]

People are still being emotionally abused by this abusive dogma today. The Pentecostal churches spew it out!

I know people who were brought up in Pentecostalism, who have chosen to reject their upbringing - but none are as vitupertive as you.

Well maybe they should be. Subjecting children and the vulnerable to this evil emotional abuse should be illegal, imo! I will continue to rant about it as long as I live!

[Hope]

Well maybe they should be. Subjecting children and the vulnerable to this evil emotional abuse should be illegal, imo! I will continue to rant about it as long as I live!

Why 'should' they, if they don't regard what they grew up with as abusive?

[Alien]

So you left because you didn't like it rather than because you thought it was incorrect?

Would you not believe in cars if someone told you that you will get knocked over if you step out into a busy street without looking?

Psssst ... cars are real

Agreed. Glad you realised that.

However, you may have missed the point that not believing in something because you don't like them is not a valid reason for not believing.

[Leonard James]

So you left because you didn't like it rather than because you thought it was incorrect?

Would you not believe in cars if someone told you that you will get knocked over if you step out into a busy street without looking?

Psssst ... cars are real

Agreed. Glad you realised that.

However, you may have missed the point that not believing in something because you don't like them is not a valid reason for not believing.

Likewise, believing in something because you like to is not a valid reason to do so.

[floo]

Well maybe they should be. Subjecting children and the vulnerable to this evil emotional abuse should be illegal, imo! I will continue to rant about it as long as I live!

Why 'should' they, if they don't regard what they grew up with as abusive?

Any right thinking person would think threatening a kid with hell is abusive, especially as there is not the slightest shred of evidence to support this nasty dogma!

[Hope]

Any right thinking person would think threatening a kid with hell is abusive, especially as there is not the slightest shred of evidence to support this nasty dogma!

In which way is telling a child that, if they do something wrong, they will likely suffer, abuse?  As for the oft-repeated bit in the second part of the post, I assume that - in your view - warning a child that sticking their fingers into an electric socket will result in unpleasant consequences is no better a dogma.

[Shaker]

In which way is telling a child that, if they do something wrong, they will likely suffer, abuse?

I think deliberate obtuseness seems to be the order of your day. The concept of hell, as you know perfectly well, relates to suffering (of some sort - people make this ghastly nonsense up as they go along so they can adjust it according to their own personal level of sadism) after death with no possibility of cessation.

If you don't consider that abusive - to adults, never mind children - then clearly your moral compass is knackered and is in dire need of repair.

[floo]

Any right thinking person would think threatening a kid with hell is abusive, especially as there is not the slightest shred of evidence to support this nasty dogma!

In which way is telling a child that, if they do something wrong, they will likely suffer, abuse?  As for the oft-repeated bit in the second part of the post, I assume that - in your view - warning a child that sticking their fingers into an electric socket will result in unpleasant consequences is no better a dogma.

Don't be so silly Hope! We can prove electricity can kill or maim, (I have had several electric shocks in my life) you can't prove a deity or afterlife exists!

[Hope]

Don't be so silly Hope! We can prove electricity can kill or main, (I have had several electric shocks in my life) you can't prove a deity or afterlife exists!

Good to see that you have completely missed the point.  I think we all believe that silly/disobedient/wrong behaviour can result in negative consequences.  In general, why is this the case?  Social beliefs.

[Owlswing]

In which way is telling a child that, if they do something wrong, they will likely suffer, abuse?

I think deliberate obtuseness seems to be the order of your day. The concept of hell, as you know perfectly well, relates to suffering (of some sort - people make this ghastly nonsense up as they go along so they can adjust it according to their own personal level of sadism) after death with no possibility of cessation.

If you don't consider that abusive - to adults, never mind children - then clearly your moral compass is knackered and is in dire need of repair.

What he said!

[floo]

Don't be so silly Hope! We can prove electricity can kill or main, (I have had several electric shocks in my life) you can't prove a deity or afterlife exists!

Good to see that you have completely missed the point.  I think we all believe that silly/disobedient/wrong behaviour can result in negative consequences.  In general, why is this the case?  Social beliefs.

You are trying to compare consequences in the real world, with consequences in your  imaginary world of the afterlife. IT DOESN'T WORK!

[Owlswing]

Don't be so silly Hope! We can prove electricity can kill or main, (I have had several electric shocks in my life) you can't prove a deity or afterlife exists!

Good to see that you have completely missed the point.  I think we all believe that silly/disobedient/wrong behaviour can result in negative consequences.  In general, why is this the case?  Social beliefs.

You are trying to compare consequences in the real world, with consequences in your  imaginary world of the afterlife. IT DOESN'T WORK!

What Floo said!

[Alien]

So you left because you didn't like it rather than because you thought it was incorrect?

Would you not believe in cars if someone told you that you will get knocked over if you step out into a busy street without looking?

Psssst ... cars are real

Agreed. Glad you realised that.

However, you may have missed the point that not believing in something because you don't like them is not a valid reason for not believing.

Likewise, believing in something because you like to is not a valid reason to do so.

Agreed.

[jeremyp]

Any right thinking person would think threatening a kid with hell is abusive, especially as there is not the slightest shred of evidence to support this nasty dogma!

In which way is telling a child that, if they do something wrong, they will likely suffer, abuse?  As for the oft-repeated bit in the second part of the post, I assume that - in your view - warning a child that sticking their fingers into an electric socket will result in unpleasant consequences is no better a dogma.

There's substantially more evidence that sticking your fingers in an electric socket is bad for you than that doing something God doesn't like will consign you to eternal torment.

[floo]

A very small number of people calling themselves 'Christians' on this forum have excelled themselves in wummery  since I first started this thread. Their hypocritical utterances are mind boggling, especially when they have the cheek to accuse others of hypocrisy. One can only suppose the huge planks they have in their own eyes are blinding them to the truth about themselves. No one is perfect, I am certainly not, but I think I have a right to be a bit peeved when heathens like myself are constantly taken to task by the arch wums!

[Rhiannon]

Floo, you aren't a heathen.

[Shaker]

Floo, you aren't a heathen.

Not in the strict sense as used by pagans, which has a very specific meaning - some people still use the word to mean anyone who simply isn't a Christian, though.

[Gordon]

Moderator:

This thread contained a derail that mainly consisted of members sniping - these posts have been removed.

[floo]

Floo, you aren't a heathen.

Not in the strict sense as used by pagans, which has a very specific meaning - some people still use the word to mean anyone who simply isn't a Christian, though.

I have often been called a heathen by some of those sitting on the sky fairy's knee!

[BashfulAnthony]

Floo, you aren't a heathen.

Not in the strict sense as used by pagans, which has a very specific meaning - some people still use the word to mean anyone who simply isn't a Christian, though.

I have often been called a heathen by some of those sitting on the sky fairy's knee!

And how are you going to spend this Christmas with your family?

[BeRational]

Floo, you aren't a heathen.

Not in the strict sense as used by pagans, which has a very specific meaning - some people still use the word to mean anyone who simply isn't a Christian, though.

I have often been called a heathen by some of those sitting on the sky fairy's knee!

And how are you going to spend this Christmas with your family?

How are you spending the winter pagan festival?

[BashfulAnthony]

Floo, you aren't a heathen.

Not in the strict sense as used by pagans, which has a very specific meaning - some people still use the word to mean anyone who simply isn't a Christian, though.

I shall be spending Christmas celebrating the birth of Jesus, and not pretending to be something I'm not

I have often been called a heathen by some of those sitting on the sky fairy's knee!

And how are you going to spend this Christmas with your family?

How are you spending the winter pagan festival?

[floo]

Floo, you aren't a heathen.

Not in the strict sense as used by pagans, which has a very specific meaning - some people still use the word to mean anyone who simply isn't a Christian, though.

I have often been called a heathen by some of those sitting on the sky fairy's knee!

And how are you going to spend this Christmas with your family?

How are you spending the winter pagan festival?

On Christmas Day our eldest girl and our son will join us for Christmas dinner. On Boxing day the four of us will have lunch with our youngest daughter and family at their home.