Homosexuality!

[Owlswing]

Hi Sriram,

That all sounds very feasible, and I hope it can be proved and put into practice, with the proviso that the choice of sexuality modification is left to the individual concerned.

As a young man I would definitely have sought such help, but social norms are now more flexible, and gay youngsters are not treated so cruelly as they were in my day.

Hear, hear!

[Owlswing]

Does this mean some 'straight' people might have the choice to be 'gay'

<does not need to be cured!  But I tend to disagree>
So Sriram bhai, you feel being gay is akin to being a leper or carrying some disease that will wipe out mankind

Hitler would've loved your attitude !!!!!

Nick

Why leper and wiping out mankind?! That's a bit over the top. 

I have never thought of homosexuality as a big deal either way. Most Indians don't (you might know). It is not condemned in our scriptures nor are gays sent to hell or anything of that sort.   

I think its an abnormality that occurs now and then in some people. No big deal.  If it can be cured and people can live normal lives....why not?!

This is fine for people who consider homosexuality to be "abnormal". I do not!

[Owlswing]

Does this mean some 'straight' people might have the choice to be 'gay'

<does not need to be cured!  But I tend to disagree>
So Sriram bhai, you feel being gay is akin to being a leper or carrying some disease that will wipe out mankind

Hitler would've loved your attitude !!!!!

Nick

Why leper and wiping out mankind?! That's a bit over the top. 

I have never thought of homosexuality as a big deal either way. Most Indians don't (you might know). It is not condemned in our scriptures nor are gays sent to hell or anything of that sort.   

I think its an abnormality that occurs now and then in some people. No big deal.  If it can be cured and people can live normal lives....why not?!

Hey Sriram, maybe your heterosexuality can be cured.

Interesting thought. If I see a straight guy that I fancy maybe I can get him turned.

[Owlswing]

Does this mean some 'straight' people might have the choice to be 'gay'

<does not need to be cured!  But I tend to disagree>
So Sriram bhai, you feel being gay is akin to being a leper or carrying some disease that will wipe out mankind

Hitler would've loved your attitude !!!!!

Nick

Why leper and wiping out mankind?! That's a bit over the top. 

I have never thought of homosexuality as a big deal either way. Most Indians don't (you might know). It is not condemned in our scriptures nor are gays sent to hell or anything of that sort.   

I think its an abnormality that occurs now and then in some people. No big deal.  If it can be cured and people can live normal lives....why not?!

My gay friends would be perfectly able to lead normal lives of it wasn't for people like you stating they are diseased.

Agreed. I have met very few gays/lesbians who are unhappy to be so, and when they are it is usually as a result of the way that they are treated/talked to/talked about by the straight and religious communities.

[floo]

In my opinion homosexuality is every bit as normal as heterosexuality. Why shouldn't people of the same sex fall in love and marry? Only sick bigots see anything wrong in it.

[Udayana]

Hi everyone,

Ok....the subject of homosexuality is always controversial and lots of people tend to get all charged up. This could be one such...(or maybe not). 

Here is my favorite subject of epignetics again.  They say that homosexuality could even be cured through epigenetic therapy. 

Alright...some people may feel that homosexuality is not...repeat not... a  disease and does not need to be cured!  But I tend to disagree.   

Here is some scientific stuff on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_theories_of_homosexuality
...

This also highlights the fact that lifestyle and environmental factors (that's what epigenetics is all about) could be producing homosexual tendencies.   

For information.

Cheers.

Sriram

If you agree that homosexuality occurs due to biological factors - ie not "spiritual", then there is no doubt that we will soon have the ability to control this through genetic engineering or medication. However genetic engineering will not be permitted - for the same reason that it is forbidden for all other human cases - that it is likely to reduce genetic diversity.

If it is possible to develop medication to re-proram gene expression at a point later in life, it will be up to the individual concerned whether to use such or not. Coercing such choices is obviously a violation of human rights. However, considering the growing number of families, in India say, who choose to abort female embryos - leading to a gross imbalance in the sex ratio, it could turn out that many men turn to such medication, choosing homosexuality voluntarily.

In fact, one might expect epigenetic changes to effect such a change entirely naturally.

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Much as I expected really!!   I must remind all of you of Eleanor Roosevelt's comment ...."Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events and great minds discuss ideas."   

All of you have been discussing me rather than the science of epigenetics and its ramifications....as I expected. 

Some years back people claimed that homosexuality was due to genetic  reasons. So the attitude was 'see...its not my choice, its all in the genes'.  So...religious people were silenced.  Some people even thought genetic engineering could change homosexuals.

Then genes were not found to be responsible and it all went back to wishy-washy stuff.

Now it has been found that epigenetics probably is responsible for homosexuality. So..we are back to 'its not by choice' stuff. So...what exactly is wrong with that?  Its just science....and religious people cannot say much on that.  Its almost the same as 'genes are responsible'.

I find Leonard's attitude to be the most reasonable and balanced. Thanks for that Len!  All others seem to have lost their head completely (in particular Trippymonkey). 

Well...the science still stands....as in the OP. Nothing much can be done about that, I am afraid....whoever likes it or not.   

Cheers.

Sriram

[Nearly Sane]

Hi everyone,

Much as I expected really!!   I must remind all of you of Eleanor Roosevelt's comment ...."Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events and great minds discuss ideas."   

All of you have been discussing me rather than the science of epigenetics and its ramifications....as I expected. 

Some years back people claimed that homosexuality was due to genetic  reasons. So the attitude was 'see...its not my choice, its all in the genes'.  So...religious people were silenced.  Some people even thought genetic engineering could change homosexuals.

Then genes were not found to be responsible and it all went back to wishy-washy stuff.

Now it has been found that epigenetics probably is responsible for homosexuality. So..we are back to 'its not by choice' stuff. So...what exactly is wrong with that?  Its just science....and religious people cannot say much on that.  Its almost the same as 'genes are responsible'.

I find Leonard's attitude to be the most reasonable and balanced. Thanks for that Len!  All others seem to have lost their head completely (in particular Trippymonkey). 

Well...the science still stands....as in the OP. Nothing much can be done about that, I am afraid....whoever likes it or not.   

Cheers.

Sriram

And again I ask where dies the science say it is a disease?

[Rhiannon]

Sriram's, it's very kind of you to bring your great mind to talk to our little minds. But the science jury is still out.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/33773/title/Can-Epigenetics-Explain-Homosexuality-/

And as the article points out, who cares? 'Homosexuality isn't a disease, it's a part of natural human variation'.

[Maeght]

Hi everyone,

Much as I expected really!!   I must remind all of you of Eleanor Roosevelt's comment ...."Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events and great minds discuss ideas."   

All of you have been discussing me rather than the science of epigenetics and its ramifications....as I expected. 

Some years back people claimed that homosexuality was due to genetic  reasons. So the attitude was 'see...its not my choice, its all in the genes'.  So...religious people were silenced.  Some people even thought genetic engineering could change homosexuals.

Then genes were not found to be responsible and it all went back to wishy-washy stuff.

Now it has been found that epigenetics probably is responsible for homosexuality. So..we are back to 'its not by choice' stuff. So...what exactly is wrong with that?  Its just science....and religious people cannot say much on that.  Its almost the same as 'genes are responsible'.

I find Leonard's attitude to be the most reasonable and balanced. Thanks for that Len!  All others seem to have lost their head completely (in particular Trippymonkey). 

Well...the science still stands....as in the OP. Nothing much can be done about that, I am afraid....whoever likes it or not.   

Cheers.

Sriram

I repeat my earlier post - The science is very interesting. The use of the word 'cure' and saying that if cured people could then lead 'normal' lives is your problem here Sriram - can't you see that?

[floo]

Sriram's, it's very kind of you to bring your great mind to talk to our little minds. But the science jury is still out.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/33773/title/Can-Epigenetics-Explain-Homosexuality-/

And as the article points out, who cares? 'Homosexuality isn't a disease, it's a part of natural human variation'.

Just like being left-handed which was seen as a personality flaw in the bad old days! As I have mentioned before my mother and her brother were beaten for using their left hands at school in the 20s/30s.

[wigginhall]

Oh, surprise, bigot pops his head up and says, I'm not bigoted, it's just the scientificalistic stuff.   Yeah, right.

[Sriram]

Oh, surprise, bigot pops his head up and says, I'm not bigoted, it's just the scientificalistic stuff.   Yeah, right.

And the SMALL MIND pops up again and talks of me rather than the subject!!  You guys never will change.  LOL!

[jakswan]

...went back to wishy-washy stuff...

Dam irony meter just can't cope its blown again.

[Sriram]

I repeat my earlier post - The science is very interesting. The use of the word 'cure' and saying that if cured people could then lead 'normal' lives is your problem here Sriram - can't you see that?

Yes...but that's what the Wiki article says...."some people[who?] have suggested that it might be possible to alter one's sexual orientation with epigenetic therapy,[11] similarly to treatment of diabetes, cancer or schizophrenia."

I agree that the word 'cure' may not have been used, but homosexuality has been treated on par with diabetes, cancer and schizophrenia. So...what's the difference?

[Aruntraveller]

Hi everyone,

Much as I expected really!!   I must remind all of you of Eleanor Roosevelt's comment ...."Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events and great minds discuss ideas."   

All of you have been discussing me rather than the science of epigenetics and its ramifications....as I expected. 

Some years back people claimed that homosexuality was due to genetic  reasons. So the attitude was 'see...its not my choice, its all in the genes'.  So...religious people were silenced.  Some people even thought genetic engineering could change homosexuals.

Then genes were not found to be responsible and it all went back to wishy-washy stuff.

Now it has been found that epigenetics probably is responsible for homosexuality. So..we are back to 'its not by choice' stuff. So...what exactly is wrong with that?  Its just science....and religious people cannot say much on that.  Its almost the same as 'genes are responsible'.

I find Leonard's attitude to be the most reasonable and balanced. Thanks for that Len!  All others seem to have lost their head completely (in particular Trippymonkey). 

Well...the science still stands....as in the OP. Nothing much can be done about that, I am afraid....whoever likes it or not.   

Cheers.

Sriram

I pointed out that I thought it was a detrimental step to move towards conformity. Which is a direct ramification of the proposal.

why are you misrepresenting this thread?

[wigginhall]

Oh, surprise, bigot pops his head up and says, I'm not bigoted, it's just the scientificalistic stuff.   Yeah, right.

And the SMALL MIND pops up again and talks of me rather than the subject!!  You guys never will change.  LOL!

I'm talking about your comments that being gay is abnormal, and could be cured.   These ideas indicate bigotry.

[BashfulAnthony]

Oh, surprise, bigot pops his head up and says, I'm not bigoted, it's just the scientificalistic stuff.   Yeah, right.

And the SMALL MIND pops up again and talks of me rather than the subject!!  You guys never will change.  LOL!

I get that response with a lot of my posts.   

[Udayana]

Oh, surprise, bigot pops his head up and says, I'm not bigoted, it's just the scientificalistic stuff.   Yeah, right.

And the SMALL MIND pops up again and talks of me rather than the subject!!  You guys never will change.  LOL!

How can the science possibly tell us what is ethical or not?

[Aruntraveller]

I agree that the word 'cure' may not have been used, but homosexuality has been treated on par with diabetes, cancer and schizophrenia. So...what's the difference?

Maybe because if I get schizophrenia or diabete or Cancer I need treatment to stay healthy or indeed alive.

This does not apply to homosexuality.

That is why it is no longer classified as a disease. Duh.

[floo]

Oh, surprise, bigot pops his head up and says, I'm not bigoted, it's just the scientificalistic stuff.   Yeah, right.

And the SMALL MIND pops up again and talks of me rather than the subject!!  You guys never will change.  LOL!

You seem to be a silly little bigot if your endless threads are anything to go by, so don't be surprised if you find yourself challenged!

[wigginhall]

Being gay is like cancer, OMG, what's that saying about stop digging, when you're in a hole.

[Sriram]

Oh, surprise, bigot pops his head up and says, I'm not bigoted, it's just the scientificalistic stuff.   Yeah, right.

And the SMALL MIND pops up again and talks of me rather than the subject!!  You guys never will change.  LOL!

How can the science possibly tell us what is ethical or not?

What is unethical about some homosexual wanting to get epigenetic therapy? Should he necessarily believe that its all about 'diversity' and such other stuff and conform with the fanatics?

[wigginhall]

Fanatics?  Oh, look in the mirror.

[Sriram]

Fanatics?  Oh, look in the mirror.

Again Wiggenhall?!  LOL!  Talk of the subject just once...if you can.