Author Topic: Homosexuality!  (Read 119197 times)

Synonym

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #100 on: April 29, 2015, 03:26:59 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

Synonym

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #101 on: April 29, 2015, 03:29:21 PM »
We generally take the view that if a living creature can't consent then having sex with it is harmful, don't we?
We do? If a horse genuinely is not bothered, what harm can be identified?

Rhiannon

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #102 on: April 29, 2015, 03:30:40 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

If you imagine that there is a mutual consensual giving and receiving between you and your washing machine, yes.

Rhiannon

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #103 on: April 29, 2015, 03:33:03 PM »
We generally take the view that if a living creature can't consent then having sex with it is harmful, don't we?
We do? If a horse genuinely is not bothered, what harm can be identified?

You could say the same about a person in a coma - they arent 'bothered'. We don't know the level to which a horse is conscious of itself, hence we have boundaries.

Synonym

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #104 on: April 29, 2015, 03:33:20 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

If you imagine that there is a mutual consensual giving and receiving between you and your washing machine, yes.
So if someone believes that they did not imagine such a relationship, then they are not harming themselves and so are not mentally ill?

edited for clarity.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 03:50:55 PM by Synonym »

ippy

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #105 on: April 29, 2015, 03:39:53 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

If you imagine that there is a mutual consensual giving and receiving between you and your washing machine, yes.

What setting?

ippy

trippymonkey

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #106 on: April 29, 2015, 03:40:11 PM »
<does not need to be cured!  But I tend to disagree>
So Sriram bhai, you feel being gay is akin to being a leper or carrying some disease that will wipe out mankind ??? ::)

Hitler would've loved your attitude !!!!!

Nick
Nick, you seem to have a rather weird understanding of ill-health.  By no means is all disease a threat to the survival of humanity; most are unpleasant but by no means life-threatening.

That doesn't mean that a cure for such diseases oughtn't to be sought.

No but Sriram more than suggests being gay CAN be cured like a disease can !
Did you actually READ my answer?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 03:42:06 PM by trippymonkey »

Hope

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #107 on: April 29, 2015, 03:47:25 PM »
No but Sriram more than suggests being gay CAN be cured like a disease can !
Did you actually READ my answer?
I did, and quoted almost all of it; all the stuff about "carrying some disease that will wipe out mankind".  Hyperbole of the first degree.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Synonym

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #108 on: April 29, 2015, 03:48:13 PM »
We generally take the view that if a living creature can't consent then having sex with it is harmful, don't we?
We do? If a horse genuinely is not bothered, what harm can be identified?

You could say the same about a person in a coma - they arent 'bothered'. We don't know the level to which a horse is conscious of itself, hence we have boundaries.
If the horse isn't kicking the person away or otherwise exhibiting any sign of fear or stress, then it might be a reasonable inference that they are unbothered. People in comas are not in the same position of being able to react.

But I think this is a separate matter. OK we can makes laws against certain activities in case they cause harm that cannot be communicated, but we were talking about what qualifies a person as having a mental disorder and whether it involves value judgments.

If you believe that the medical profession classifies on a notion of 'non-consent/non-relationship harms the indulger', well that does not explain why necrophilia is a disorder but a blow up doll isn't.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #109 on: April 29, 2015, 03:50:25 PM »
Why leper and wiping out mankind?! That's a bit over the top.  :D
Sriram, supporters of the liberalisation of attitudes to homosexual practice have always used hyperpole in order to make their view appear to be more moderate and therefore acceptable than that of those who disagree with them.  Ironically, the suggestions for why people disagree are often so far from reality as to make one wonder what they really think behind the facade of liberalisation-speak.

This from someone who has regularly used murder as a comparitor for homosexuality.

Owlswing

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #110 on: April 29, 2015, 04:50:31 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

#100 and #101

Trust you to go from the sublime to the bloody ridiculous!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

floo

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2015, 05:06:21 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

Necrophilia is SICK! :o, As for the rest that is apparently normal for some people, and why not?

Gordon

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #112 on: April 29, 2015, 05:19:29 PM »
Sriram, supporters of the liberalisation of attitudes to homosexual practice have always used hyperpole in order to make their view appear to be more moderate and therefore acceptable than that of those who disagree with them.

This makes homosexuality seem like some sort of cause - and it needn't be. All that is required is to accept that the private sex lives of consenting adults is exactly that: private, and that the sexuality of these consenting adults is entirely their own affair.

Quote
Ironically, the suggestions for why people disagree are often so far from reality as to make one wonder what they really think behind the facade of liberalisation-speak.

It seems to me that prejudice is very real indeed, as is discrimination that flows from it, and that some are concerned about this is not, as you suggest, 'the facade of liberisation-speak' but is an expression of their concern - a concern that you seem eager to trivialise.

As regards the sexuality of consenting adults - what bit of 'private' do you think is problematic?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #113 on: April 29, 2015, 05:23:38 PM »
... 
Incidentally while not the norm, I have no real objection to necrophilia, if there could be a legal statement from someone prior to dying

What!? Why would you need this? Surely permission of next of kin should suffice were it to be allowed? What about cannibalism then? Or all sorts of other possible behaviour ... there is nothing absolute about these things, how we assign values and rights is ultimately, surely, a matter of zeitgeist or fashion?  Even to the recognition of "harm" vs "no harm".

Because it is essentially about ownership, if the next of giving permission were the person seeking it then you end up with a conflict
 If I put in my will that I wish to be cremated, it might (seen as voiding anything else.


Nearly Sane

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #114 on: April 29, 2015, 05:26:50 PM »
Quote
Quote
I suspect that homosexuality was declassified as a disorder mainly because the Zeitgeist changed and it was no longer seen as "abnormal" behaviour.

No I think it was declassified because there was a recognition that this was a regularly occurring variation in human sexuality that did no harm to those involved.
They didn't know that before?

There are no intrinsic harms in necrophilia or bestiality (depending on the animal). But since society says they are weird and disgusting and only mentalists and deviants would have such interests...so does the medical profession.

Sex is harmful if one party cannot give informed consent. This includes sex with the dead and with animals, as well as sex with children.

The medical profession sees that the harm works both ways. It isn't only harmful to the victim, it is also harmful to the perpetrator as they cannot form a proper relationship with the object of their sexual attraction.

Which is a value judgement and not a medical one.

Not from a psychiatric point of view.

Or are you saying that psychiatry is about values not medicine?

That part is. Psychiatry is a wide field and the bit that says take this pill to achieve this outcome is science based. The bit that says this is a good outcome is a value judgement.

trippymonkey

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #115 on: April 29, 2015, 05:31:18 PM »
No but Sriram more than suggests being gay CAN be cured like a disease can !
Did you actually READ my answer?
I did, and quoted almost all of it; all the stuff about "carrying some disease that will wipe out mankind".  Hyperbole of the first degree.

Those were HIS words, remember, not mine.

Rhiannon

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #116 on: April 29, 2015, 06:11:07 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

If you imagine that there is a mutual consensual giving and receiving between you and your washing machine, yes.
So if someone believes that they did not imagine such a relationship, then they are not harming themselves and so are not mentally ill?

edited for clarity.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but there's a bit of a difference between using sex toys and having sex with a dead person.

Rhiannon

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #117 on: April 29, 2015, 06:16:22 PM »
Quote
Quote
I suspect that homosexuality was declassified as a disorder mainly because the Zeitgeist changed and it was no longer seen as "abnormal" behaviour.

No I think it was declassified because there was a recognition that this was a regularly occurring variation in human sexuality that did no harm to those involved.
They didn't know that before?

There are no intrinsic harms in necrophilia or bestiality (depending on the animal). But since society says they are weird and disgusting and only mentalists and deviants would have such interests...so does the medical profession.

Sex is harmful if one party cannot give informed consent. This includes sex with the dead and with animals, as well as sex with children.

The medical profession sees that the harm works both ways. It isn't only harmful to the victim, it is also harmful to the perpetrator as they cannot form a proper relationship with the object of their sexual attraction.

Which is a value judgement and not a medical one.

Not from a psychiatric point of view.

Or are you saying that psychiatry is about values not medicine?

That part is. Psychiatry is a wide field and the bit that says take this pill to achieve this outcome is science based. The bit that says this is a good outcome is a value judgement.

But there is evidence based psychiatry that has a broad consensus of the kinds of sexual relationships that make for good mental health and those that don't. In fact many psychs would argue that is more certain than the effects of taking certain meds.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #118 on: April 29, 2015, 06:20:09 PM »
I would argue it's circular here with good mental health bring part of the value judgement.

Rhiannon

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #119 on: April 29, 2015, 06:24:41 PM »
I think we can agree there's a consensus that it's healthier to shag the living than shag the dead.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #120 on: April 29, 2015, 06:29:15 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

If you imagine that there is a mutual consensual giving and receiving between you and your washing machine, yes.
So if someone believes that they did not imagine such a relationship, then they are not harming themselves and so are not mentally ill?

edited for clarity.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but there's a bit of a difference between using sex toys and having sex with a dead person.

Or maybe not


http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=10201.0


ippy

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #121 on: April 29, 2015, 07:01:52 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

If you imagine that there is a mutual consensual giving and receiving between you and your washing machine, yes.
So if someone believes that they did not imagine such a relationship, then they are not harming themselves and so are not mentally ill?

edited for clarity.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but there's a bit of a difference between using sex toys and having sex with a dead person.

What about a washer dryer Rhi?

Ippy

Rhiannon

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #122 on: April 29, 2015, 07:05:19 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

If you imagine that there is a mutual consensual giving and receiving between you and your washing machine, yes.
So if someone believes that they did not imagine such a relationship, then they are not harming themselves and so are not mentally ill?

edited for clarity.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but there's a bit of a difference between using sex toys and having sex with a dead person.

What about a washer dryer Rhi?

Ippy

So long as you still respect it in the morning. Maybe get some flowers, some good coffee...

Rhiannon

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #123 on: April 29, 2015, 07:06:04 PM »
In one night stands, no strings sex etc., there is still a relationship - a consenting giving and receiving in that moment. There are still two (or more) people relating to each other.
How about necrophilia, blow up dolls, blow up sheep, v*brators, washing machines during spin cycle? Engaging in these evidence of a disordered mind?

If you imagine that there is a mutual consensual giving and receiving between you and your washing machine, yes.
So if someone believes that they did not imagine such a relationship, then they are not harming themselves and so are not mentally ill?

edited for clarity.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but there's a bit of a difference between using sex toys and having sex with a dead person.

Or maybe not


http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=10201.0

Yeah. Like I said.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #124 on: April 29, 2015, 07:21:29 PM »
Is anybody noting down the names of those posters who haven't joined this thread?