Homosexuality!

[BashfulAnthony]

Is anybody noting down the names of those posters who haven't joined this thread?

Just looking through the latest posts, this thread is threadbare!!  It's just about the least intelligent few posts even this bereft forum has produced  -  cheap and tatty!

[Nearly Sane]

Is anybody noting down the names of those posters who haven't joined this thread?

Just looking through the latest posts, this thread is threadbare!!  It's just about the least intelligent few posts even this bereft forum has produced  -  cheap and tatty!

Are you sure that isn't just your discomfort with some of the topics covered showing?

[Hope]

This from someone who has regularly used murder as a comparitor for homosexuality.

Selective memory there NS.  I have never used murder as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  In fact, I have never used anything as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  What I have done is say that I believe the 'same-sex' sex to be wrong, in the same way that I believe many other forms of activity to be wrong.  That includes lying, theft, fraud, rape, murder, paedophilia, deceit, slavery, etc.

[Nearly Sane]

 

[/sup]pic=10205.msg516060#msg516060 date=1430319025]
This from someone who has regularly used murder as a comparitor for homosexuality.

Selective memory there NS.  I have never used murder as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  In fact, I have never used anything as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  What I have done is say that I believe the 'same-sex' sex to be wrong, in the same way that I believe many other forms of activity to be wrong.  That includes lying, theft, fraud, rape, murder, paedophilia, deceit, slavery, etc.

'Same way ' is a comparison So you have just done it again and proven my memory is not selective. Thank you.

[Hope]

'Same way ' is a comparison So you have just done it again and proven my memory is selective. Thank you.

Precisely, you have chosen to select a single, particularly unpleasant form of behaviour as a 'comparitor' (if that's the term you wish to use - it doesn't seem to appear in the Oxford Dictionary) to make me out to be something I am not.  That is not only selective memory but selective posting as well.  Furthermore, as I said before, I have never compared homosexuality to anything.

[Nearly Sane]

'Same way ' is a comparison So you have just done it again and proven my memory is selective. Thank you.

Precisely, you have chosen to select a single, particularly unpleasant form of behaviour as a 'comparitor' (if that's the term you wish to use - it doesn't seem to appear in the Oxford Dictionary) to make me out to be something I am not.  That is not only selective memory but selective posting as well.  Furthermore, as I said before, I have never compared homosexuality to anything.

You are saying you object to it in the SAME WAY. That is a comparison. It's the one you have made in the past and again here's. Further you have stated that all sins are equally bad. So it's both equal and offensive to you in the SAME WAY.

[trippymonkey]

This from someone who has regularly used murder as a comparitor for homosexuality.

Selective memory there NS.  I have never used murder as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  In fact, I have never used anything as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  What I have done is say that I believe the 'same-sex' sex to be wrong, in the same way that I believe many other forms of activity to be wrong.  That includes lying, theft, fraud, rape, murder, paedophilia, deceit, slavery, etc.

You just shot yourself royally in the foot there, pal. 
Reread your 3rd sentence on to the end & then say they're not contradictory, I DARES YA !!!

[Aruntraveller]

This from someone who has regularly used murder as a comparitor for homosexuality.

Selective memory there NS.  I have never used murder as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  In fact, I have never used anything as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  What I have done is say that I believe the 'same-sex' sex to be wrong, in the same way that I believe many other forms of activity to be wrong.  That includes lying, theft, fraud, rape, murder, paedophilia, deceit, slavery, etc.

You just shot yourself royally in the foot there, pal. 
Reread your 3rd sentence on to the end & then say they're not contradictory, I DARES YA !!!

And furthermore as I understand it Sin is Sin - there are no gradations to a Christian, therefore they are equivalent in some peoples minds.

[jeremyp]

I have never used murder as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  In fact, I have never used anything as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  What I have done is say that I believe the 'same-sex' sex to be wrong, in the same way that I believe many other forms of activity to be wrong.  That includes lying, theft, fraud, rape, murder, paedophilia, deceit, slavery, etc.

Was there no part of your mind screaming "DO NOT POST THIS"?

[Aruntraveller]

I have never used murder as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  In fact, I have never used anything as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  What I have done is say that I believe the 'same-sex' sex to be wrong, in the same way that I believe many other forms of activity to be wrong.  That includes lying, theft, fraud, rape, murder, paedophilia, deceit, slavery, etc.

Was there no part of your mind screaming "DO NOT POST THIS"?

Unlikely.

[Shaker]

This from someone who has regularly used murder as a comparitor for homosexuality.

Selective memory there NS.  I have never used murder as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  In fact, I have never used anything as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  What I have done is say that I believe the 'same-sex' sex to be wrong, in the same way that I believe many other forms of activity to be wrong.  That includes lying, theft, fraud, rape, murder, paedophilia, deceit, slavery, etc.

Well now ... if you ever had any sort of moral compass at some point, it's royally fucked now.

You very often find this with religion, of course.

[Shaker]

And furthermore as I understand it Sin is Sin - there are no gradations to a Christian, therefore they are equivalent in some peoples minds.

Spot on. This is the, if you'll excuse the lack of a better term, moral system which treats merely thinking about someone lustfully as functionally equivalent to having sex with them. It really is an incredibly childish view of morality.

[Owlswing]

This from someone who has regularly used murder as a comparitor for homosexuality.

Selective memory there NS.  I have never used murder as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  In fact, I have never used anything as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  What I have done is say that I believe the 'same-sex' sex to be wrong, in the same way that I believe many other forms of activity to be wrong.  That includes lying, theft, fraud, rape, murder, paedophilia, deceit, slavery, etc.

I always thought that, despite my disagreement with many things the you have posted, you were an intelligent individual with an attachement to a religion with which I disagree.

This post, and your reaction to the condemnation that it has attracted, has made me seriously reconsider my vioew of you and your beliefs. You have in this post shown yourself to be an idiot who cannot understand the enormity of truly monstrous nature of what you have said. 

[Shaker]

Wot Matthew said.

[Leonard James]

What I have done is say that I believe the 'same-sex' sex to be wrong, in the same way that I believe many other forms of activity to be wrong.  That includes lying, theft, fraud, rape, murder, paedophilia, deceit, slavery, etc.

I'm sure you regret having posted that, Hope, but just to put you right, all the 'other activities' you mention are decidedly antisocial and involve injuring the victim of the activity, and most of us would agree with you in considering them wrong.

However, Homosexual acts between consenting adults harms nobody.

THAT is why you are wrong.

[Leonard James]

Sometimes Homosexuality can harm others.

Usually because people feel the need to try and be someone else, but it doesn't work for them and years later they have to "come out"

I'm not sure if it takes someone that long to come to terms with who they are, or whether they just feel pressured to having a partner of the opposite sex and kids.

I wouldn't say it doesn't hurt anyone, because it can.

But some of that is probably down to people trying to conform to other people's ideals.

It must still hurt their original partners though.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, Blossom, but obviously homosexual activity can on occasions do the same sort of damage as heterosexual activity can, but it is not wrong in itself.

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

I see that the discussion has moved on to necrophilia, bestiality, sex with machines and so on. And most people here don't seem to regard any of this as seriously wrong.

Well...I suppose if one believes that humans are mere accidental products of random gene variation and nothing more...it would seem that everyone is free to do what they want.... as long as it does not harm someone else...(there are courts you know!). 

Atheism and such ultra liberal views obviously go hand in hand.  (Could epigenetics be responsible for atheism...I wonder? That will be a different thread altogether I guess).

But if someone believes that life has a purpose, self control & discipline are important for spiritual growth and there is an absolute right & wrong....then, certain types of behavior that encourage lust and pleasure seeking for their own sake.....can be considered wrong.

Ok...getting back to my OP, though genes are now not considered responsible for homosexuality, epigenetics is probably the mechanism through which homosexuality gets generated.   Homosexuals can claim that its all in the epigenes and they did not choose to be homosexuals.... so its not a sin. Seems reasonable.

However, religious people could also claim that though the homosexual himself did not choose his sexuality...its never the less a factor of the lifestyle of their parents or grandparents. So...something has gone awry somewhere!   

The plus in all this is that if homosexuals choose to change their sexuality it probably can be done  through epigenetic therapy...though its very early days yet. 

Cheers.

Sriram

[Rhiannon]

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2014/09/13692/

Here is an example, Leonard.

This women felt she was treated unfairly because her "husband" came out.

She felt being gay gave him rights a heterosexual man would not have received in the same circumstances.

Judges give weird decisions all the time; the same (and often more shocking) thing happens when one partner is left by someone who is staying in heterosexual relationships. And there are plenty of step parents who muscle in on the kids and freeze out the birth parents. As for the publicity, I'm afraid tgat speaks volumes about US society.

What hurts is being lied to, being deceived, and people in any kind of relationship do that, sadly.

[Rhiannon]

This one has a variety of views including those of gay people in such circumstances.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/feb/20/coming-out-husband-wife

My point is that if your partner runs off with someone of the same sex, there is an extra judgment in society which isn't there, if they ran off with someone of a different sex.

There is an extra hurt there, related to the fact they are homosexual.

Why? I know someone this happened to; she said she felt less hurt than if he'd left for another woman because another woman could be prettier, thinner, younger - but she couldn't even begin to compare herself to a bloke.

The problem there is society's judgement of homosexuality, not homosexuality itself. It isn't gay people's fault if society judges them more harshly.

[Rhiannon]

This from someone who has regularly used murder as a comparitor for homosexuality.

Selective memory there NS.  I have never used murder as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  In fact, I have never used anything as a 'comparitor' for homosexuality.  What I have done is say that I believe the 'same-sex' sex to be wrong, in the same way that I believe many other forms of activity to be wrong.  That includes lying, theft, fraud, rape, murder, paedophilia, deceit, slavery, etc.

You are comparing the same thing you are free to enjoy with your wife - sex and marriage - to all kinds of harmful, abusive, base behaviours. You seek to deny the right of two men or two women to declare and fulfil their love for one another in the name of the God of love. Do you not think that if this God exists then he is present in their love?

So where is your love? When you are judged (as you believe you one day will be) do you not think it better to stand before your God and say that you allowed gay relationships out of love than criminalised them in your mind out of devotion to some words in a book? The Bible's a book, Hope. It's man-made. And using it to condemn gay relationships is idolatry.

[Rhiannon]

I'm not against same sex relationships btw.

I just feel that sometimes people's feelings are ignored if they don't make the right noises when it comes to discussions on it.

We all feel sorry for wronged spouses. It's the lying and deceit and unfaithfulness that is wrong though.

If society wasn't so set on what's 'normal' and what isn't we wouldn't have so many gay people denying who they are and entering into straight marriage in the first place.

[Rhiannon]

Rhiannon


Leonard said


"However, Homosexual acts between consenting adults harms nobody."

People have different ideas on what constitutes "harm".

Some ex partners may feel it has caused them harm.

IMO Harm is largely subjective.

Therefore I think you can't make a general statement that homosexual acts between consenting adults hurts no one, unless you ignore the views of those who feel they have been "harmed".

Homosexual acts in and of themselves aren't harmful, unless you want to say that straight ones are too. Because any kind of sex, and any kind of relationship, can become damaging and abusive.

In itself, homosexuality is no more harmful than heterosexuality.

[Nearly Sane]

Fully agree with Rhiannon there and would just add I am not sure why the focus on homosexuals being in previously heterosexual relationships. It is just the same for homosexuals when their partners leave.

Homosexual relationships are just as odd, strange amazing and messy as heterosexual relationships but we don't suggest heterosexual acts in and of themselves are harmful.

[trippymonkey]

Rose
Are you 'suggesting' gay relationships are more potentially harming than 'straight' ones??

[Owlswing]

Rhiannon

Some actions seem to have more potential harm than others

The important words in your comment are "SEEM TO".