Author Topic: Homosexuality!  (Read 119493 times)

Sassy

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #625 on: May 20, 2015, 01:33:57 PM »
I wish someone would create a therapy for old age 💊.

At least for the creaky bits.

That would be more useful IMO.

Plenty of laughter and little of what you fancy now and again... ;D
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #626 on: May 20, 2015, 01:38:16 PM »
Received Pronunciation.

The problem is that as soon as society says it is acceptable for such therapies to be allowed, there are those who will decide it is desirable. Dr Nazeem Mahmood was successful and happy in a relationship, yet he still took his own life after his mother suggested he get therapy to 'cure' his homosexuality. That wasn't a choice he wanted to make, but one his family decided was ok to pressure him into.

And no doubt it would be available privately. What happens then - adverts on the Tube? Promotion by the churches?
People take their own life because they are unhappy for all kinds of reasons. It doesn't become a bigger or smaller tragedy because their reason for killing themselves was because they did not perceive enough acceptance about their sexuality. They are depressed so their perceptions are skewed anyway by their depression.

 A friend of mine hanged himself by tying a belt round his neck and jumping off his balcony in Australia when he was 22 because he thought he was ugly, which was crazy as not only was he good-looking and a great dancer but he was also a really sweet guy - but when he looked at himself he felt unhappy and unaccepted. Also, society puts lots of pressure on people about their looks. Yet we have whole industries geared towards providing services to allow people to change the way they look. So this whole slippery slope argument is along the same lines as some people gave for opposing gay marriage - it's restricting individual freedom based on guessing.

Restricting advertising is a separate issue - you could treat it the same way as cigarette advertising. Maybe we should also get rid of adverts for cosmetic procedures from the tube?

Very true points and an excellent Post Gabriella,

Friends have walked out under a Lorry and killed themselves in other ways because of mental illness and the strain of living with it.
Sometimes we fail to find the right answers and even the right treatments.

My ex-husband had tried suicide several times. Lost of two of his friends as teenagers and that was a slippery slope into depression.
But he had his own issues too. So like everything we cannot get it right all the time. But people have to address issues and realities of how people feel about themselves and help them.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #627 on: May 20, 2015, 01:44:38 PM »
Received Pronunciation.

The problem is that as soon as society says it is acceptable for such therapies to be allowed, there are those who will decide it is desirable. Dr Nazeem Mahmood was successful and happy in a relationship, yet he still took his own life after his mother suggested he get therapy to 'cure' his homosexuality. That wasn't a choice he wanted to make, but one his family decided was ok to pressure him into.

And no doubt it would be available privately. What happens then - adverts on the Tube? Promotion by the churches?

Well, the current gay conversion therapies seem to start from the premise that there is something wrong with being gay,

Whereas in truth the person themselves feel they cannot cope with being gay themselves.  The world is geared to heterosexual teachings about sex and reproductions. A young person does not know how to deal with their feelings or share what they experience.

If people stopped talking about "gay being something wrong" and just listened and offered counseling at the earliest stages there would be more confident young people dealing with their identity sexually.


Quote
and also offer various bizarre theories, e.g. gays were abused as children.  That is why they are banned by professional organizations - they are simply dangerous.   Of course, they are not illegal but I would warn anyone against them.

Just what isn't needed and not called for.

It is necessary for organisations to help in schools and colleges where children/young adults can see guidance and help.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #628 on: May 20, 2015, 07:47:21 PM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #629 on: May 22, 2015, 09:22:23 AM »

Leonard James

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #630 on: May 22, 2015, 10:09:42 AM »
Lovely letter from Sebatian Barry about today's marriage equality vote in Ireland

http://www.joe.ie/news/pic-writer-sebastian-barry-pens-a-beautiful-letter-to-the-irish-times-about-his-reasons-for-voting-yes/495527

Let us hope that there are enough enlightened Catholics and Christians in Ireland to vote yes.

floo

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #631 on: May 22, 2015, 11:32:29 AM »
Lovely letter from Sebatian Barry about today's marriage equality vote in Ireland

http://www.joe.ie/news/pic-writer-sebastian-barry-pens-a-beautiful-letter-to-the-irish-times-about-his-reasons-for-voting-yes/495527

Let us hope that there are enough enlightened Catholics and Christians in Ireland to vote yes.

One hopes so!

Shaker

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #632 on: May 22, 2015, 11:34:45 AM »
Lovely letter from Sebatian Barry about today's marriage equality vote in Ireland

http://www.joe.ie/news/pic-writer-sebastian-barry-pens-a-beautiful-letter-to-the-irish-times-about-his-reasons-for-voting-yes/495527

Let us hope that there are enough enlightened Catholics and Christians in Ireland to vote yes.
Let's hope that they become even more enlightened, and cease to be Catholic and Christian.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Leonard James

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #633 on: May 22, 2015, 11:40:06 AM »
Lovely letter from Sebatian Barry about today's marriage equality vote in Ireland

http://www.joe.ie/news/pic-writer-sebastian-barry-pens-a-beautiful-letter-to-the-irish-times-about-his-reasons-for-voting-yes/495527

Let us hope that there are enough enlightened Catholics and Christians in Ireland to vote yes.
Let's hope that they become even more enlightened, and cease to be Catholic and Christian.

Wishful thinking never hurt anybody!  :)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #634 on: May 22, 2015, 12:58:54 PM »
Lovely letter from Sebatian Barry about today's marriage equality vote in Ireland

http://www.joe.ie/news/pic-writer-sebastian-barry-pens-a-beautiful-letter-to-the-irish-times-about-his-reasons-for-voting-yes/495527

Let us hope that there are enough enlightened Catholics and Christians in Ireland to vote yes.
Let's hope that they become even more enlightened, and cease to be Catholic and Christian.

My sainted (Catholic) mother is reasonably enlightened, certainly as enlightened as me, and certainly more enlightened that someone who might make arrogant fatuous generalizations while hugging themselves and telling themself how enlightened they are.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #635 on: May 22, 2015, 01:00:41 PM »
Following the #voteyes feed, just read 'sure Jesus had two das and he was grand'

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #636 on: May 22, 2015, 02:26:45 PM »

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #637 on: May 22, 2015, 03:29:21 PM »
Ha Ji BUT that. as we BOTH know is NOT Hinduism's fault but humans'.

N
The gay community in India seem to think it is the fault of Hindu political parties as well as the Hindus who vote for these parties that they are being criminalised.

http://gayasianews.com/2014/05/18/indias-anti-gay-hindu-nationalist-party-voted-to-power/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/indias-gay-community-scrambling-after-court-decision-recriminalises-homosexuality-9146244.html

Are you arguing that there are lots of different interpretations of Hinduism or are you arguing that India is mainly made up of people who are not "real" Hindus according to your definition of a "real" Hindu?
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trippymonkey

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #638 on: May 22, 2015, 03:33:00 PM »
I know Hinduism a bit like you say you know Islam.
Not the usual stuff.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #639 on: May 22, 2015, 03:36:53 PM »
Is there anyone, 'sane', here that can give sensible & honest reasons why 2 of the same gender, PHYSICAL gender that is, cannot love each other EXACTLY as 2 differently organed can?
If you are talking about penetration, I explained that the blood donor organisations think there is more risk of passing on disease as the tissues in the bum are more likely to tear than the tissues in the vagina and statistics show that sexually active gay men present a higher risk group in terms of being blood donors. People can still physically penetrate either orifice, so it is not a question of why they cannot love, it's more a question of higher risk factors associated with that particular kind of love.

Policy decisions are often made on statistical risk rather than on a case by case basis.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

trippymonkey

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #640 on: May 22, 2015, 03:39:10 PM »
Sorry G
I meant about the 'in the head & HEART' stuff not physically.
We must also remember so-called straights can do this way too.

N

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #641 on: May 22, 2015, 03:46:43 PM »
Sorry G
I meant about the 'in the head & HEART' stuff not physically.
We must also remember so-called straights can do this way too.

N
Head and heart - absolutely no reason why gay people feel any differently to any other sexual orientation.

I suspect the risks of tearing tissue is the same regardless of a person's sexual orientation, though I haven't looked for any stats as to whether there are more incidents of tissue damage between a gay couple compared to a heterosexual couple, because I don't really care. I think there is a higher incidence of it amongst gay men hence the blood donor policy puts gay men in a high risk group but doesn't question whether a heterosexual person has had bum sex in the last 12 months.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

trippymonkey

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #642 on: May 22, 2015, 03:51:05 PM »
I feel it's a case of carelessness, being unprepared & not using lube etc with a bit of BIG size also involved.
This applies to all forms of physical intercourse between ANYONE regardless of sexual orientation so cannot be used exclusively here in THIS post.

N

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #643 on: May 22, 2015, 03:55:02 PM »
Neither. Just questioning some people's notions that their sense of morality derives from "instincts".

Most societies and tribes start off not particularly "fluffy", yet someone who happens to have been born into the UK in 19xx and whose sense of morality is "fluffy", is just going by the instincts God gave them? Nothing to do with the Zeitgeist?

Tolerant and fluffy aren't synonyms.
I agree but not sure what point you are making.

If someone says that their morals or tolerance is just natural instincts, the ones given by God, then I still question whether it is just a coincidence that the person who feels this way was born into a Zeitgeist that leans towards this. Considering that such attitudes seem not be the default state of how most tribes and societies start out.

Ok, let's just say that our default setting is violent tribalism and self-protection. Isn't Christianity about getting away from those?

Also, given that we know homosexuality has been around for millennia, and that many gay people describe homosexual attraction and feelings as natural, you appear to be saying that natural homosexual feelings are given by God?
I don't know about violent tribalism but tribalism certainly seems to be a default setting. Not sure how Christianity can get away from tribalism when the Christians are a "tribe".

In any society people divide themselves using a 'them' and 'us' mentality. Being atheist doesn't protect anyone from this divisive mentality, which is one of the reasons I did not mind accepting Islam after being an atheist - I realised that religion wasn't the bogeyman I had thought it was and that being atheist didn't prevent anyone from adopting irrational beliefs. I did not see what was so bad about religious irrational beliefs compared to any other type of irrational belief - IMO it seems to depend very much on the individual and their susceptibility to peer pressure and group think rather than the religiosity or not of their irrational beliefs.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

trippymonkey

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #644 on: May 22, 2015, 03:57:33 PM »
V interesting. May 'we' ask if you felt like this when you became a Muslim?
I presume you did look into Islam's history as well your own interpretation of The Quran?

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #645 on: May 22, 2015, 03:58:43 PM »
I feel it's a case of carelessness, being unprepared & not using lube etc with a bit of BIG size also involved.
This applies to all forms of physical intercourse between ANYONE regardless of sexual orientation so cannot be used exclusively here in THIS post.

N
Quite possibly - sexually active gay men are barred for 12 months from donating blood regardless of whether they have used a condom or not, as the evidence apparently suggests that condoms are often not used correctly and result in a false sense of security. Policy decisions are based on taking people as they find them rather than idealised scenarios where everything happens the way it is supposed to.   
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #646 on: May 22, 2015, 03:59:57 PM »
V interesting. May 'we' ask if you felt like this when you became a Muslim?
I presume you did look into Islam's history as well your own interpretation of The Quran?
Felt like what specifically? I am describing my thoughts at the moment I decided to accept Islam.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Brownie

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #647 on: May 22, 2015, 06:28:56 PM »
Is there anyone, 'sane', here that can give sensible & honest reasons why 2 of the same gender, PHYSICAL gender that is, cannot love each other EXACTLY as 2 differently organed can?
If you are talking about penetration, I explained that the blood donor organisations think there is more risk of passing on disease as the tissues in the bum are more likely to tear than the tissues in the vagina and statistics show that sexually active gay men present a higher risk group in terms of being blood donors. People can still physically penetrate either orifice, so it is not a question of why they cannot love, it's more a question of higher risk factors associated with that particular kind of love.

Policy decisions are often made on statistical risk rather than on a case by case basis.

There is such a thing as safe sex or else two people in love being tested in advance.
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

Leonard James

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #648 on: May 22, 2015, 07:45:17 PM »
Quite possibly - sexually active gay men are barred for 12 months from donating blood regardless of whether they have used a condom or not, as the evidence apparently suggests that condoms are often not used correctly and result in a false sense of security. Policy decisions are based on taking people as they find them rather than idealised scenarios where everything happens the way it is supposed to.

But they are conveniently ignoring the fact that many normal couples indulge in anal penetration, and are thus just as likely to be infected.

Leonard James

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Re: Homosexuality!
« Reply #649 on: May 22, 2015, 08:05:15 PM »
Quite possibly - sexually active gay men are barred for 12 months from donating blood regardless of whether they have used a condom or not, as the evidence apparently suggests that condoms are often not used correctly and result in a false sense of security. Policy decisions are based on taking people as they find them rather than idealised scenarios where everything happens the way it is supposed to.

But they are conveniently ignoring the fact that many normal couples indulge in anal penetration, and are thus just as likely to be infected.

Not all heterosexuals like the idea

Did anybody say they did?