Homosexuality!

[Sassy]

I'm staggered by how many Christian groups mostly in the USA are taking gay marriage as a sign of the end times and how many Muslims in a variety of places seem to be doing the same thing but using it to validate the Koran and both appear to be using it to justify the said destruction.

Even assuming both sets of writings are complete rubbish isn't it worrying that both groups have so many followers that are using it among other things to justify all sorts of violence and seeing it as a beginning of the end of the world, which they all appear to want.

😳

I think I have read to much extremist crap lately 

Time to put it away and have a break, perhaps.?

Which Christian groups as violent and justifying it?
Sorry Rose but you need to put up or apologise. Name the Christian Groups and what violence they are committing.

The anti-abortion lobbyists who use bombs and guns to put their point over?

There are atheists too. Do they belong to a particular atheist group?
Why would Christians be lobbying the world?
May be people have to think on.

Abortion, homosexuality and crime might not be for Christians. But what the rest of the world does is not the responsibility of Christians.
Only God can judge and we are not here to judge the world now.
Nor to condemn or harm those who have different beliefs or way of life. We are all answerable for ourselves in the end..

You are, from this post, the most unpleasant hypocrite I have yet seen on here.

I have yet to see any Atheist group bombing abortion centres or killing doctors for performing abortions or standing outside abortion clinics to prevent women getting into them.

Shut up!
You can come out with the most condescending drivel at times.
Firstly.. there are atheists who agree with those stupid enough to bomb clinics..

There are atheists who are pro-life...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/11/yes-there-are-pro-life-atheists-out-there-heres-why-im-one-of-them/

In fact atheists will kill other people for far less...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104672/Animal-rights-activist-plotted-kill-stranger-wearing-fur-coat.html

Just because they wear a fur coat...
Grow up and take a look in the real world... People kill others and if they want to kill the cause does not become a real reason.

But what the rest of the world does is not the responsibility of Christians. . . . Nor to condemn or harm those who have different beliefs or way of life.

You have been judging anyone who disagrees with your Bible ever since I joined this forum. Christians condemn non-believers out of hand, and Christians harm them by preventing them getting treatment they need because your god proscribes abortion.

WRONG... wrong and right is the basis for my reasoning..
It is not about my faith or the Holy Book but about the truth and love.
I see the real world that EVERYONE thinks differently about things. But I do NOT BELIEVE IT IS RIGHT TO HURT OTHERS....

True Christians are not the ones outside abortion CLINICS... They disagree with abortion unless on medical grounds...
They let the world do as they will do and live as they best can without hurting others and trying to explain the truth to ignorant and attacking people like yourself who are apparently unable to see the difference between Jesus Christ and those people today who hurt others.

Tell all the lies you want to tell about me.. My life shows that I help others I do not judge them for their heartache decisions... Maybe one day you could try it...

[Sassy]

A child standing up for equality

http://happyplace.someecards.com/lgbt/7yearold-girl-silently-stands-up-to-homophobic-street-preacher-wins-the-internets-heart/

A child being used as a pawn in adult games.
For Gods sake what they going to use next?
A child of seven has no understanding of homosexuality...
Why WHY do they use children as pawns...

Whilst not defending this - Christians are not averse to using children in this manner to.

Hi Trent,

It is a disgusting trend for any human being to do,

A while ago I posted a link to a clip of a child of  8 (iirc) who was preaching against homosexuality in a very unpleasant fashion. You didn't believe it could happen. I posted proof it could. You went very quiet then.

I have seen you type this before "What's sauce for the goose....".

It could be a genuinely missed the reply Trent. You can re-direct if you want..

I don't condone either action as it happens, because I don't think children should be used in this way. But that goes for lots of issues that parents choose to involve their children in - not specifically on the issue of sexuality.

My children make their own choices... You must lead by example.
My parents had no bias or prejudices so we grew up with none.
My mum had a friend who was homosexual in the early 70's where she worked. My mum knew how difficult life was for him and she was there for him like a second mum. I think we tend to let religion and bias rule the world instead of loving everyone for who they are....

[Sassy]

I don't condone either action as it happens, because I don't think children should be used in this way. But that goes for lots of issues that parents choose to involve their children in - not specifically on the issue of sexuality.

Indeed! To indoctrinate a child with a religious belief before its power to reason is fully developed is abusing it ... no matter how strong your own belief is.

I never did that... My children chose to be baptised when they were old enough to choose... But I had no worries about it. I trust God and he would guide them. So sometimes faith can work for good and it is good everyone can choose...

[Leonard James]

I never did that... My children chose to be baptised when they were old enough to choose...

Then if you didn't teach them about baptism and what it meant, they must have learnt it outside their home, so you aren't responsible for the deception.

[Owlswing]

I'm staggered by how many Christian groups mostly in the USA are taking gay marriage as a sign of the end times and how many Muslims in a variety of places seem to be doing the same thing but using it to validate the Koran and both appear to be using it to justify the said destruction.

Even assuming both sets of writings are complete rubbish isn't it worrying that both groups have so many followers that are using it among other things to justify all sorts of violence and seeing it as a beginning of the end of the world, which they all appear to want.

😳

I think I have read to much extremist crap lately 

Time to put it away and have a break, perhaps.?

Which Christian groups as violent and justifying it?
Sorry Rose but you need to put up or apologise. Name the Christian Groups and what violence they are committing.

The anti-abortion lobbyists who use bombs and guns to put their point over?

There are atheists too. Do they belong to a particular atheist group?
Why would Christians be lobbying the world?
May be people have to think on.

Abortion, homosexuality and crime might not be for Christians. But what the rest of the world does is not the responsibility of Christians.
Only God can judge and we are not here to judge the world now.
Nor to condemn or harm those who have different beliefs or way of life. We are all answerable for ourselves in the end..

You are, from this post, the most unpleasant hypocrite I have yet seen on here.

I have yet to see any Atheist group bombing abortion centres or killing doctors for performing abortions or standing outside abortion clinics to prevent women getting into them.

Shut up!
You can come out with the most condescending drivel at times.
Firstly.. there are atheists who agree with those stupid enough to bomb clinics..

There are atheists who are pro-life...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/11/yes-there-are-pro-life-atheists-out-there-heres-why-im-one-of-them/

In fact atheists will kill other people for far less...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104672/Animal-rights-activist-plotted-kill-stranger-wearing-fur-coat.html

Just because they wear a fur coat...
Grow up and take a look in the real world... People kill others and if they want to kill the cause does not become a real reason.

But what the rest of the world does is not the responsibility of Christians. . . . Nor to condemn or harm those who have different beliefs or way of life.

You have been judging anyone who disagrees with your Bible ever since I joined this forum. Christians condemn non-believers out of hand, and Christians harm them by preventing them getting treatment they need because your god proscribes abortion.

WRONG... wrong and right is the basis for my reasoning..
It is not about my faith or the Holy Book but about the truth and love.
I see the real world that EVERYONE thinks differently about things. But I do NOT BELIEVE IT IS RIGHT TO HURT OTHERS....

True Christians are not the ones outside abortion CLINICS... They disagree with abortion unless on medical grounds...
They let the world do as they will do and live as they best can without hurting others and trying to explain the truth to ignorant and attacking people like yourself who are apparently unable to see the difference between Jesus Christ and those people today who hurt others.

Tell all the lies you want to tell about me.. My life shows that I help others I do not judge them for their heartache decisions... Maybe one day you could try it...

Your twistiung and turning will get you nowhere.

The people outside the clinics carry posters quoting scripture and no amout of mealy-mouthed denial will change that!

You are trying to defend the indefensible and quoting the Daily Fail on any matter of controversy is like quoting Katie Price on celibacy and the negatives of cosmetic surgery!

[Nearly Sane]

Then I find the statement objectionable nonsense, my old sainted mother did not abuse me in my upbringing and that idea is a vacuous insult to her and people who suffer real abuse

Then substitute the word abuse with "severe disservice". Whichever way you look at it it is teaching children something as fact when it is no more than a personal belief.

morality is no more than a personal belief, would I be doing my kids a severe disservice if I taught them my morals? You know nothing about my mother but are happy to comment that in bringing me up as  Catholic she did me a 'severe disservice', this ignorant pontificating is all the more laughable when it is after all merely your personal belief.

(You know I love you dearly, Len but your charm won't get you any slack, just hat doffing)

[Sassy]

I never did that... My children chose to be baptised when they were old enough to choose...

Then if you didn't teach them about baptism and what it meant, they must have learnt it outside their home, so you aren't responsible for the deception.

Don't be silly Leonard,

Do you want me to lie to my children about what I believe and why?
As an adult I have never hidden my faith from my children nor my vulnerability to get things wrong in my life.


My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

I never force my children to do anything. But as God promised my children know him and believe in him.
I guess you were forced were you?
So why pretend it is different anywhere else. NO ONE can force another to believe... You cannot make them choose God.

[Sassy]

Your twistiung and turning will get you nowhere.

The people outside the clinics carry posters quoting scripture and no amout of mealy-mouthed denial will change that!

The pro-life organisations outside those clinics who carry banners and are not religious must be the mealy-mouthed twats you refer to. As they would deny holding any banners with scriptures on as they are atheists.. But never mind what is the truth to someone like yourself who even tries to twist the obvious...

King James Bible
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

You see... not agreeing with abortion is good. But doing things which hurt others because of that belief is Evil...
You need to understand the difference and stop making out that anyone who believes and are members of pro-life groups all have to be Christian.

You are trying to defend the indefensible and quoting the Daily Fail on any matter of controversy is like quoting Katie Price on celibacy and the negatives of cosmetic surgery!

I thought you had no faith... You sure have faith in your own rubbish. But the EPIC FAIL is your inability to see the truth let alone tell it.
I really do not care what you think of me.. Your own prejudice speaks volumes... What I find the most baffling is how you thought you could affect me by what you write. As I said.. it is drivel and will remain drivel  especially when you try to make all pro-life groups Christian and claim the atheists use scriptures... Grow up!

[floo]

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!


Well some describe the deity as good, when the deeds attributed to it are evil?

[Leonard James]

Then I find the statement objectionable nonsense, my old sainted mother did not abuse me in my upbringing and that idea is a vacuous insult to her and people who suffer real abuse

Then substitute the word abuse with "severe disservice". Whichever way you look at it it is teaching children something as fact when it is no more than a personal belief.

morality is no more than a personal belief, would I be doing my kids a severe disservice if I taught them my morals? You know nothing about my mother but are happy to comment that in bringing me up as  Catholic she did me a 'severe disservice', this ignorant pontificating is all the more laughable when it is after all merely your personal belief.

(You know I love you dearly, Len but your charm won't get you any slack, just hat doffing)

You know perfectly well that I wasn't talking about morals. I was talking about god beliefs, and rather than doff your hat, I would prefer you not to misinterpret my posts.

[Owlswing]

I never did that... My children chose to be baptised when they were old enough to choose...

Then if you didn't teach them about baptism and what it meant, they must have learnt it outside their home, so you aren't responsible for the deception.

Don't be silly Leonard,

Do you want me to lie to my children about what I believe and why?
As an adult I have never hidden my faith from my children nor my vulnerability to get things wrong in my life.


My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

I never force my children to do anything. But as God promised my children know him and believe in him.
I guess you were forced were you?
So why pretend it is different anywhere else. NO ONE can force another to believe... You cannot make them choose God.

My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

Now YOU shut up!

In the paragraph quoted above you have admitted that your children are daily indoctrinated with your perverse and fundamentalist religious beliefs!

In another household those very same chilfdren could be indoctrinated, by exactly the same means, to fundamentalist Islam instead of fundamentalist Christianity.

You are condemned by your own words!

[Leonard James]

I never did that... My children chose to be baptised when they were old enough to choose...

Then if you didn't teach them about baptism and what it meant, they must have learnt it outside their home, so you aren't responsible for the deception.

Don't be silly Leonard,

Do you want me to lie to my children about what I believe and why?
As an adult I have never hidden my faith from my children nor my vulnerability to get things wrong in my life.


My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

I never force my children to do anything. But as God promised my children know him and believe in him.
I guess you were forced were you?
So why pretend it is different anywhere else. NO ONE can force another to believe... You cannot make them choose God.

I give up, Sass. It is impossible to have a sensible discussion with somebody who can't see beyond the end of their sanctimonious nose.

Nathan has put it all in a nutshell. READ IT.

[floo]

I never did that... My children chose to be baptised when they were old enough to choose...

Then if you didn't teach them about baptism and what it meant, they must have learnt it outside their home, so you aren't responsible for the deception.

Don't be silly Leonard,

Do you want me to lie to my children about what I believe and why?
As an adult I have never hidden my faith from my children nor my vulnerability to get things wrong in my life.


My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

I never force my children to do anything. But as God promised my children know him and believe in him.
I guess you were forced were you?
So why pretend it is different anywhere else. NO ONE can force another to believe... You cannot make them choose God.

My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

Now YOU shut up!

In the paragraph quoted above you have admitted that your children are daily indoctrinated with your perverse and fundamentalist religious beliefs!

In another household those very same chilfdren could be indoctrinated, by exactly the same means, to fundamentalist Islam instead of fundamentalist Christianity.

You are condemned by your own words!

Getting Sass to comprehend any of that is well nigh impossible, I should think!

[Owlswing]

I never did that... My children chose to be baptised when they were old enough to choose...

Then if you didn't teach them about baptism and what it meant, they must have learnt it outside their home, so you aren't responsible for the deception.

Don't be silly Leonard,

Do you want me to lie to my children about what I believe and why?
As an adult I have never hidden my faith from my children nor my vulnerability to get things wrong in my life.


My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

I never force my children to do anything. But as God promised my children know him and believe in him.
I guess you were forced were you?
So why pretend it is different anywhere else. NO ONE can force another to believe... You cannot make them choose God.

My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

Now YOU shut up!

In the paragraph quoted above you have admitted that your children are daily indoctrinated with your perverse and fundamentalist religious beliefs!

In another household those very same chilfdren could be indoctrinated, by exactly the same means, to fundamentalist Islam instead of fundamentalist Christianity.

You are condemned by your own words!

Getting Sass to comprehend any of that is well nigh impossible, I should think!

YOU should think? It would be a bloody sight more useful if Sassy thought once in a while.

She doesn't have a word in her head that is her own - every last thought is dictated to her by that bloody book!

[Owlswing]

I never did that... My children chose to be baptised when they were old enough to choose...

Then if you didn't teach them about baptism and what it meant, they must have learnt it outside their home, so you aren't responsible for the deception.

Don't be silly Leonard,

Do you want me to lie to my children about what I believe and why?
As an adult I have never hidden my faith from my children nor my vulnerability to get things wrong in my life.


My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

I never force my children to do anything. But as God promised my children know him and believe in him.
I guess you were forced were you?
So why pretend it is different anywhere else. NO ONE can force another to believe... You cannot make them choose God.

I give up, Sass. It is impossible to have a sensible discussion with somebody who can't see beyond the end of their sanctimonious nose.

Nathan has put it all in a nutshell. READ IT.

Thank you, Leonard, I was beginning to think i was in a cast of one!

I also give up trying to get a single sensible word from Sassy and therefore I add her to the list of those I no longer interact with for various reasons, WUMing, trolling or, as in this case, monumental stupidity and serial blindness to the obvious!

[Leonard James]

Thank you, Leonard, I was beginning to think i was in a cast of one!

Far from it, mate! Sass has her fans, of course, but I think most of us here recognise that regurgitating the Bible is her usual approach to all questions. She finds it very difficult to think outside it.

[BashfulAnthony]

I never did that... My children chose to be baptised when they were old enough to choose...

Then if you didn't teach them about baptism and what it meant, they must have learnt it outside their home, so you aren't responsible for the deception.

Don't be silly Leonard,

Do you want me to lie to my children about what I believe and why?
As an adult I have never hidden my faith from my children nor my vulnerability to get things wrong in my life.


My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

I never force my children to do anything. But as God promised my children know him and believe in him.
I guess you were forced were you?
So why pretend it is different anywhere else. NO ONE can force another to believe... You cannot make them choose God.

My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

Now YOU shut up!

In the paragraph quoted above you have admitted that your children are daily indoctrinated with your perverse and fundamentalist religious beliefs!

In another household those very same chilfdren could be indoctrinated, by exactly the same means, to fundamentalist Islam instead of fundamentalist Christianity.

You are condemned by your own words!

Getting Sass to comprehend any of that is well nigh impossible, I should think!

YOU should think? It would be a bloody sight more useful if Sassy thought once in a while.

She doesn't have a word in her head that is her own - every last thought is dictated to her by that bloody book!

No need to be disrespectful:  I wouldn't dream of disrespecting whatever clap-trap you believe.   

[Leonard James]

No need to be disrespectful:  I wouldn't dream of disrespecting whatever clap-trap you believe.   

Oh gawd ... Mona Lott is back!

[Owlswing]

I never did that... My children chose to be baptised when they were old enough to choose...

Then if you didn't teach them about baptism and what it meant, they must have learnt it outside their home, so you aren't responsible for the deception.

Don't be silly Leonard,

Do you want me to lie to my children about what I believe and why?
As an adult I have never hidden my faith from my children nor my vulnerability to get things wrong in my life.


My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

I never force my children to do anything. But as God promised my children know him and believe in him.
I guess you were forced were you?
So why pretend it is different anywhere else. NO ONE can force another to believe... You cannot make them choose God.

My children and I, pray together for family and others in need.
We pray because God answers and we have all experienced his presence. When I went to Church was I suppose to leave my children home alone?  Church is about going to Gods place once in a while.
But my children know God is everywhere and not contained within a building with us.

Now YOU shut up!

In the paragraph quoted above you have admitted that your children are daily indoctrinated with your perverse and fundamentalist religious beliefs!

In another household those very same chilfdren could be indoctrinated, by exactly the same means, to fundamentalist Islam instead of fundamentalist Christianity.

You are condemned by your own words!

Getting Sass to comprehend any of that is well nigh impossible, I should think!

YOU should think? It would be a bloody sight more useful if Sassy thought once in a while.

She doesn't have a word in her head that is her own - every last thought is dictated to her by that bloody book!

No need to be disrespectful:  I wouldn't dream of disrespecting whatever clap-trap you believe.   

I cannot believe that you managed to get your tongue that far into your cheek.

You wouldn't dream of it, no, you just do it when it suits your point. Word like drivel and rubbish come to mind. Persil you ain't!

[Aruntraveller]

I don't condone either action as it happens, because I don't think children should be used in this way. But that goes for lots of issues that parents choose to involve their children in - not specifically on the issue of sexuality.

Indeed! To indoctrinate a child with a religious belief before its power to reason is fully developed is abusing it ... no matter how strong your own belief is.

Oh dear....my comment seems to have triggered off something that I had not foreseen.

What I was really talking about was the use of children by adults as an "emotional tool" to win arguments. I find it distasteful in the extreme - and I think contributes to a loss of the essential wonder of childhood.

And I meant what I said about lots of issues - whether it be gay parents using kids to bolster their arguments, or religionists using them to bolster theirs, or politicians force feeding their daughters beef burgers to quell public anxiety over BSE, or Greens bringing along their children to demos saying "it's their planet (the children) we are destroying".

Enough already - if your argument is strong enough you don't need to resort to the use of emotional blackmail.

For some reason using children in this way puts me in mind of that TV programme that used to have children performing chart hits of the day. Hideously wrong on every level.

[Leonard James]

I don't condone either action as it happens, because I don't think children should be used in this way. But that goes for lots of issues that parents choose to involve their children in - not specifically on the issue of sexuality.

Indeed! To indoctrinate a child with a religious belief before its power to reason is fully developed is abusing it ... no matter how strong your own belief is.

Oh dear....my comment seems to have triggered off something that I had not foreseen.

What I was really talking about was the use of children by adults as an "emotional tool" to win arguments. I find it distasteful in the extreme - and I think contributes to a loss of the essential wonder of childhood.

And I meant what I said about lots of issues - whether it be gay parents using kids to bolster their arguments, or religionists using them to bolster theirs, or politicians force feeding their daughters beef burgers to quell public anxiety over BSE, or Greens bringing along their children to demos saying "it's their planet (the children) we are destroying".

Enough already - if your argument is strong enough you don't need to resort to the use of emotional blackmail.

For some reason using children in this way puts me in mind of that TV programme that used to have children performing chart hits of the day. Hideously wrong on every level.

Fair enough, Trent, but that does not in any way affect my conviction that it is wrong to teach children beliefs as facts.

[trippymonkey]

Rose
What a lovely & very honest post.....

Thanks...
Nick

[Leonard James]

There is no God, is a belief.

There are no flower fairies is a belief. So?

[Aruntraveller]

There is no God, is a belief.

There are no flower fairies is a belief. So?

So teaching your children "there is no God" is teaching them a belief rather than a fact.

One persons fact is another persons opinion.

Belief is just an opinion.

How many parents don't allow their opinions to influence their children?

Part of bringing up children involves passing on important things

No Rose.

Fact is not interchangeable with opinion. That is a misuse of the English language.

It is my opinion that a recent television series called Sun Trap was very, very funny.

It is a fact that it was widely panned and criticised for being a dire half hour of television.

[Leonard James]

There is no God, is a belief.

There are no flower fairies is a belief. So?

So teaching your children "there is no God" is teaching them a belief rather than a fact.

One persons fact is another persons opinion.

Belief is just an opinion.

How many parents don't allow their opinions to influence their children?

Part of bringing up children involves passing on important things

Providing you don't teach them that beliefs are facts.