What Is God Made From?

[floo]

Yes, all humans are fallible, including Moses and the other authors of the Jewish bible, including the writers of the New Testament gospels, including Paul, including Jesus, including Mohammed, including me, including you, including the Pope, even including Shaker. Oh, hang on a minute.  Here's my rule of thumb : the greater an idea's dependence on a single authority for its veracity, the likelier it is to be wrong. I think it a healthy mindset to acknowledge one's limits.

But Jesus was not just human - He was God made man.
"... and the Word became flesh and lived among us"
This is the whole basis of Christianity.
If I did not believe this, I would not be a Christian.

There is not the slightest bit of  verifiable evidence to suggest that Jesus was anything but human, with the same faults and failings as the rest of us.

However he has obviously said something deep and existential which has got you rattled.

Really, like what?

[Leonard James]

Yes, all humans are fallible, including Moses and the other authors of the Jewish bible, including the writers of the New Testament gospels, including Paul, including Jesus, including Mohammed, including me, including you, including the Pope, even including Shaker. Oh, hang on a minute.  Here's my rule of thumb : the greater an idea's dependence on a single authority for its veracity, the likelier it is to be wrong. I think it a healthy mindset to acknowledge one's limits.

But Jesus was not just human - He was God made man.
"... and the Word became flesh and lived among us"
This is the whole basis of Christianity.
If I did not believe this, I would not be a Christian.

There is not the slightest bit of  verifiable evidence to suggest that Jesus was anything but human, with the same faults and failings as the rest of us.

However he has obviously said something deep and existential which has got you rattled.

Unfortunately, he was so brainwashed by his Jewish upbringing that he couldn't think in an unbiased way. However, even though a Jew, he had a much broader understanding of life and morality than most of his peers, and for that I commend him. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yes, all humans are fallible, including Moses and the other authors of the Jewish bible, including the writers of the New Testament gospels, including Paul, including Jesus, including Mohammed, including me, including you, including the Pope, even including Shaker. Oh, hang on a minute.  Here's my rule of thumb : the greater an idea's dependence on a single authority for its veracity, the likelier it is to be wrong. I think it a healthy mindset to acknowledge one's limits.

But Jesus was not just human - He was God made man.
"... and the Word became flesh and lived among us"
This is the whole basis of Christianity.
If I did not believe this, I would not be a Christian.

There is not the slightest bit of  verifiable evidence to suggest that Jesus was anything but human, with the same faults and failings as the rest of us.

However he has obviously said something deep and existential which has got you rattled.

He's not obviously said anything, of course he could have existed and if he existed he could have said these things but the fact that he ever existed hasn't been established.

The words in the manual that professes to have recorded his words might be deep and existential, for bronze age, little more than goat herders.

ippy

When people inevitably find the range of the Ippyesque world view (should have gone to specsavers) to be as stifling and limited as it is people will want
to expand the range of ideas which have been suppressed by the intellectual fascism of the Hitchens, Dannetts, Harrises, Krausses and Onfrays of this world aka the shabby homoncularisers.

[2Corrie]

There is a difference between being known, (like I know of Islam) and something making itself known.

A fairly common theme amongst many Christians is their witness that it was God who came to them.  They were not actively seeking God.

Yep.

"Jesus sought me when a stranger, wandering from the fold of God.
  He to rescue me from danger, interposed His precious blood."

Doesn't make sense. That would be inconsistent with a benign god.  An all loving god would not pick certain individuals to rescue whilst leaving others out in the cold.  That would be a recipe for confusion.  There has to be a truer explanation for why some individuals have this feeling of being 'chosen'

It might be inconsistent with what you want God to do, but pick up a Bible and you'll see that it's entirely consistent with they way God has acted down the ages: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, the nation of Israel, Rahab, Elijah.... and into the New Testament.

[floo]

There is a difference between being known, (like I know of Islam) and something making itself known.

A fairly common theme amongst many Christians is their witness that it was God who came to them.  They were not actively seeking God.

Yep.

"Jesus sought me when a stranger, wandering from the fold of God.
  He to rescue me from danger, interposed His precious blood."

Doesn't make sense. That would be inconsistent with a benign god.  An all loving god would not pick certain individuals to rescue whilst leaving others out in the cold.  That would be a recipe for confusion.  There has to be a truer explanation for why some individuals have this feeling of being 'chosen'

It might be inconsistent with what you want God to do, but pick up a Bible and you'll see that it's entirely consistent with they way God has acted down the ages: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, the nation of Israel, Rahab, Elijah.... and into the New Testament.

Throughout the Bible the deity depicted there has acted badly, if that is what you mean by consistent!

[BashfulAnthony]

There is a difference between being known, (like I know of Islam) and something making itself known.

A fairly common theme amongst many Christians is their witness that it was God who came to them.  They were not actively seeking God.

Yep.

"Jesus sought me when a stranger, wandering from the fold of God.
  He to rescue me from danger, interposed His precious blood."

Doesn't make sense. That would be inconsistent with a benign god.  An all loving god would not pick certain individuals to rescue whilst leaving others out in the cold.  That would be a recipe for confusion.  There has to be a truer explanation for why some individuals have this feeling of being 'chosen'

It might be inconsistent with what you want God to do, but pick up a Bible and you'll see that it's entirely consistent with they way God has acted down the ages: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, the nation of Israel, Rahab, Elijah.... and into the New Testament.

Throughout the Bible the deity depicted there has acted badly, if that is what you mean by consistent!

Idiot comment:  once again illustrating the fact that you possess little Biblical knowledge!

[Jack Knave]

A question for Alan Burns. You have a voice in your head, which you thought was the deity telling you to kill your child, as apparently happened to Abraham. Would you obey, tell the deity to get lost, or seek psychiatric attention?

God would never allow me to do evil deeds in His name.

And bang goes your freewill, Alan!!! Which just shows what a load of crap you've been talking. You haven't a clue have you, but you're too stupid to realise it.

[Shaker]

Blunt, but accurate.

[Dicky Underpants]

He is recorded as performing at least one of these 'healings' rather grudgingly. As for his love for your children, maybe he would want you to concede that you are a 'dog' first (meaning "not a Jew")? Perhaps this inconvenient scripture might be interpreted metaphorically, encouraging you to accept that you're just a worthless sinner, deserving of hell, but that might be interpreted as even more obnoxious....

I'm partly playing devil's advocate here, since my opinion of Jesus is actually rather high. But I don't like believers brushing inconvenient scriptures under the carpet by trying to play down their obvious implications.

The passage you refer to illustrates the power of faith.  And it also illustrates the obvious authenticity of the bible, because if it had been invented by humans to control our behaviour, there would be no inconvenient scriptures to brush under the carpet.

Yes, that 'power of faith' explanation is the traditional one - but that doesn't mean it's the correct one. As for authenticity - yes, the "criterion of embarrassment" is an important tool in biblical scholarship to establish the likely historicity of certain uncomfortable passages. However, some of the most embarrassing texts can point to simpler interpretations of the scriptures, and these certainly do not do anything to support traditional faith. The text I referred to is more easily interpreted as an indication of Jesus' essential Jewishness, and his reluctance to regard those who did not 'belong to the fold' as part of his immediate concerns.

[floo]

God would never allow me to do evil deeds in His name.

What is so special about Alan? The deity apparently encouraged the Biblical patriarchs to do very nasty things in its name. There are people today who claim to be Christians who bring the faith into disrepute by their words and deeds. One has only to read the posts of the loony tunes end of the Christian spectrum on this forum to see how unpleasant they can be, yet apparently claiming some moral high ground because of their faith!

[BashfulAnthony]

God would never allow me to do evil deeds in His name.

What is so special about Alan? The deity apparently encouraged the Biblical patriarchs to do very nasty things in its name. There are people today who claim to be Christians who bring the faith into disrepute by their words and deeds. One has only to read the posts of the loony tunes end of the Christian spectrum on this forum to see how unpleasant can be, yet apparently claiming some moral high ground because of their faith!

"Love thine enemies, etc, etc."   Why do you always ignore Jesus' sayings?

[Jack Knave]

Blunt, but accurate.

Curt, and precise.

[Shaker]

"Love thine enemies, etc, etc."   Why do you always ignore Jesus' sayings?

Why do so many Christians?

[BashfulAnthony]

"Love thine enemies, etc, etc."   Why do you always ignore Jesus' sayings?

Why do so many Christians?

That is a sad truth, but does not answer my question to Floo, who seems unable to provide an answer for herself.  Poor Floo, and Leonard:  what would they do without you to answer for them?

[Leonard James]

"Love thine enemies, etc, etc."   Why do you always ignore Jesus' sayings?

Why do so many Christians?

That is a sad truth, but does not answer my question to Floo, who seems unable to provide an answer for herself.  Poor Floo, and Leonard:  what would they do without you to answer for them?

We ususally have more important things to attend to than your ravings, BA. We don't spend half our lives here you know!

(as you will find out when you grow up and have responsibilities of your own.) 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

"Love thine enemies, etc, etc."   Why do you always ignore Jesus' sayings?

Why do so many Christians?

That is a sad truth, but does not answer my question to Floo, who seems unable to provide an answer for herself.  Poor Floo, and Leonard:  what would they do without you to answer for them?

We ususally have more important things to attend to than your ravings.

Yes......attending to your own.

[jeremyp]

for bronze age, little more than goat herders.

The Bible wasn't written in the bronze age, nor was it written by goat herders.

[jeremyp]

Doesn't make sense. That would be inconsistent with a benign god.  An all loving god would not pick certain individuals to rescue whilst leaving others out in the cold.  That would be a recipe for confusion.  There has to be a truer explanation for why some individuals have this feeling of being 'chosen'

It might be inconsistent with what you want God to do, but pick up a Bible and you'll see that it's entirely consistent with they way God has acted down the ages: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, the nation of Israel, Rahab, Elijah.... and into the New Testament.

We know that.  We all agree that the Bible's description of God is far from benign.

[Leonard James]

Yes......attending to your own.

I wish you would, my loony friend ... they would then make more sense. 

[Leonard James]

for bronze age, little more than goat herders.

The Bible wasn't written in the bronze age, nor was it written by goat herders.

But it probably derived from superstitions and stories that were in circulation during those periods.

[BashfulAnthony]

Yes......attending to your own.

I wish you would, my loony friend ... they would then make more sense. 

And you have the gall to accuse me of being rude.  You really are the archetyaple hypocrite!  Have a few choice insults for Sassy stored up, too?  You are one unpleasant geezer.  And you say earlier, in the "Would Jesus..." thread, that being moral is instinctive with you.  So, you are deluded, too!

Sits back to wait for some typical invective in reply, from nice Leonard.

[Alan Burns]

A question for Alan Burns. You have a voice in your head, which you thought was the deity telling you to kill your child, as apparently happened to Abraham. Would you obey, tell the deity to get lost, or seek psychiatric attention?

God would never allow me to do evil deeds in His name.

And bang goes your freewill, Alan!!! Which just shows what a load of crap you've been talking. You haven't a clue have you, but you're too stupid to realise it.

But he would allow me to do evil of my own free will, but it would not be in His name.

[Alan Burns]

"Love thine enemies, etc, etc."   Why do you always ignore Jesus' sayings?

Why do so many Christians?

The Devil targets Christians.

[Shaker]

Christians specifically?

[floo]

"Love thine enemies, etc, etc."   Why do you always ignore Jesus' sayings?

Why do so many Christians?

The Devil targets Christians.

He doesn't have to target them, some are more than willing to do his bidding by bringing the faith into disrepute. A few of the Christian posters on this forum are doing a great job for their master, Satan, with their sick and unpleasant comments directed at folk who don't see it their way!