What Is God Made From?

[Nearly Sane]

Is your god omniscient?

I do not know, because I myself do not know everything there is to know.

I am glad you admit that, because none of us can possibly know all there is to know, more particularly if a deity actually exists.

I admit I do not know everything there is to know, but I am certain that God has made Himself known to me through Jesus Christ.  Nothing will ever take this away.

And nothing makes it a useful claim externally

[BeRational]

Are you trying to tell me that this all-powerful "God" you believe in was able to create the whole universe and the life in it, but he wasn't able to create humans without the power to do wrong, and that the only way he could do it was to go through all the paraphernalia of crucifying himself and then resurrecting? That doesn't sound very 'all-powerful' to me, Alan.

I have never used the words "all powerful" to describe God, because that would assume that Satan has no power.  Do not underestimate the power of the Devil.

Is your god omniscient?

I do not know, because I myself do not know everything there is to know.

So you could be wrong about every aspect of your god?

[floo]

Is your god omniscient?

I do not know, because I myself do not know everything there is to know.

I am glad you admit that, because none of us can possibly know all there is to know, more particularly if a deity actually exists.

I admit I do not know everything there is to know, but I am certain that God has made Himself known to me through Jesus Christ.  Nothing will ever take this away.

Well if the deity could make itself known to you in a way which makes you certain it exists, why couldn't the deity do me the same favour when I was a child and begging it to make its presence felt in my life? Either it didn't give a damn, or it doesn't exist, the latter seeming more credible to me!

[Ricky Spanish]

It was you Floo.

[floo]

It was you Floo.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh?

[Ricky Spanish]

That's why.

[floo]

Take more water with it!

[Alan Burns]

Well if the deity could make itself known to you in a way which makes you certain it exists, why couldn't the deity do me the same favour when I was a child and begging it to make its presence felt in my life? Either it didn't give a damn, or it doesn't exist, the latter seeming more credible to me!

All I can say is keep trying

[floo]

Well if the deity could make itself known to you in a way which makes you certain it exists, why couldn't the deity do me the same favour when I was a child and begging it to make its presence felt in my life? Either it didn't give a damn, or it doesn't exist, the latter seeming more credible to me!

All I can say is keep trying

Assuming it exists, if it can't come through for a child who needed it, why should it bother to come through for an adult who doesn't?

[BashfulAnthony]

    Seriously, though...

I am serious in saying that I believe my ability to reason is impervious to attacks by gods and demons ... just as seriously as you believe your "God" exists.

Or, to put it another way: " My mind is closed totally;  and could someone help me to understand why I am posting here?"

[Jack Knave]

A question for Alan Burns. You have a voice in your head, which you thought was the deity telling you to kill your child, as apparently happened to Abraham. Would you obey, tell the deity to get lost, or seek psychiatric attention?

God would never allow me to do evil deeds in His name.

And bang goes your freewill, Alan!!! Which just shows what a load of crap you've been talking. You haven't a clue have you, but you're too stupid to realise it.

But he would allow me to do evil of my own free will, but it would not be in His name.

Then that isn't freewill, if it was your will and choice to do evil in Gods name and It stopped you! You can't have 80% freewill, it is either all or nothing. This is something your argument has failed to appreciate that freewill means total freeness to choose without restriction and to be unhindered by any biases and conditions.

[Jack Knave]

"Love thine enemies, etc, etc."   Why do you always ignore Jesus' sayings?

Why do so many Christians?

The Devil targets Christians.

How would you know if the devil had got under your skin, Alan? You could be doing his work without even knowing it.

[Leonard James]

Or, to put it another way: " My mind is closed totally;

Nope, but yours is about "God".

... and could someone help me to understand why I am posting here?"

I need no help to know that. I post in order to stop you and other believers here corrupting minds that haven't yet been made up.

[BashfulAnthony]

Or, to put it another way: " My mind is closed totally;

Nope, but yours is about "God".

... and could someone help me to understand why I am posting here?"

I need no help to know that. I post in order to stop you and other believers here corrupting minds that haven't yet been made up.

I am not corrupting anyone.  I believe people are able to make up their own minds, unlike you who would deny people the opportunity to think for themselves.  Please give me an example of how I  corrupt anybody!

[Leonard James]

I am not corrupting anyone.

You corrupt the mind of anybody who hasn't decided about belief by talking about your "God" as if he is a fact. He isn't ... he's just a belief.

I believe people are able to make up their own minds, unlike you who would deny people the opportunity to think for themselves.

I encourage everybody to think for themselves, and not simply listen to gullible people who have swallowed slavishly what imaginative religios wrote a long time ago.

Please give me an example of how I  corrupt anybody!

Every time you post telling us who your "God" is and what he wants us to do.

[BashfulAnthony]

I am not corrupting anyone.

You corrupt the mind of anybody who hasn't decided about belief by talking about your "God" as if he is a fact. He isn't ... he's just a belief.

I believe people are able to make up their own minds, unlike you who would deny people the opportunity to think for themselves.

I encourage everybody to think for themselves, and not simply listen to gullible people who have swallowed slavishly what imaginative religios wrote a long time ago.

Please give me an example of how I  corrupt anybody!

Every time you post telling us who your "God" is and what he wants us to do.

The only references to God I make are when I talk of His love and desire for us to love one another, and forgive, etc.  And you think that is a corrupting influence, do you?

[Alan Burns]

Then that isn't freewill, if it was your will and choice to do evil in Gods name and It stopped you! You can't have 80% freewill, it is either all or nothing.

If you read what I said, once I have full knowledge of God I would be unable to consciously do something bad in His name unless I changed sides to to it deliberately against His will.

[torridon]

Not sure that works.

Are you saying that, if you were to fly a jetliner into the French Alps because you hated humans he would allow that, but if you flew a jetliner into a New York skyscraper yelling 'God is Great' he would intervene to stop you ?

People who do not know the true God may well mistakenly claim to do do things in His name.  Indeed they may well be under the influence of the Devil.

What I am saying, from my own knowledge and experience of God, is that God would not allow me, as a true believer, to mistakenly do something in His name.

If I were to deliberately swap sides, then I could pretend to do something in His name, but I would be conscious that I was not really doing what God wants.

I hope this clarifies things.

I don't think that can be right. 

Consider the split in the CofE over women clergy. Roughly half believe God favours the liberal stance, the other half believe the traditionalist view.  In casting their votes on the matter, these people are expressing their view of what god wants.  This is nothing to do with self interest, these are people split over a theological issue and they cannot all be correct.  If what you claim were true, then God would intervene to correct christians who were expressing a mistaken witness to God's will.

[Leonard James]

The only references to God I make are when I talk of His love and desire for us to love one another, and forgive, etc.  And you think that is a corrupting influence, do you?

No, evangelising the Golden Rule is the way to go. But you don't restrict yourself to that, do you? The corruption is when you start talking other nonsense about us all being sinners and needing 'redemption'. THAT is corrupting minds.

[Leonard James]

What I am saying, from my own knowledge and experience of God, is that God would not allow me, as a true believer, to mistakenly do something in His name.

If I were to deliberately swap sides, then I could pretend to do something in His name, but I would be conscious that I was not really doing what God wants.

I hope this clarifies things.

Yes, it does, but the problem comes when you decide what "God" wants. It is obvious from forums like this that many sincere believers differ in what they believe "God" wants.

You must be able to see that this calls into doubt the ability of "God" to make people understand its wants.

[floo]

My late mother-in-law knew exactly what god wanted and liked. They shared the same taste in TV programmes, clothes, food and anything else she desired. I remember her telling my husband, when he was about 19, that god thought his hair was too long!

[Alan Burns]

Consider the split in the CofE over women clergy. Roughly half believe God favours the liberal stance, the other half believe the traditionalist view.  In casting their votes on the matter, these people are expressing their view of what god wants.  This is nothing to do with self interest, these are people split over a theological issue and they cannot all be correct.  If what you claim were true, then God would intervene to correct christians who were expressing a mistaken witness to God's will.

A bit of clarification is needed here.  There is a difference in discerning God's will and proclaiming that God has asked you personally to do something in His name.  The former is not an exact science and is open to various forms of corruption and mis interpretation.  The latter can only de done by a genuine Christian under God's influence, or someone who is totally deluded and under the influence of something evil.

Just remember that this bit of discussion was started by Flo asking if I would kill one of my children if I felt certain that God was asking me to do it.  It is not about discernment of God's will, but obeying His direct orders.  As a Christian, I do not believe that God would allow me to mis interpret a direct order.

[Alan Burns]

You can't have 80% freewill, it is either all or nothing. This is something your argument has failed to appreciate that freewill means total freeness to choose without restriction and to be unhindered by any biases and conditions.

Your logic is wrong.  Many things can influence our decisions, but our conscious awareness can override these if we wish to do so.  It only takes one act of conscious free will to show evidence for the human soul.

[Leonard James]

It only takes one act of conscious free will to show evidence for the human soul.

Not at all, Alan. One act of free will is evidence for free will, and nothing else. Attributing it to an invented "soul" doesn't wash.

[floo]

Consider the split in the CofE over women clergy. Roughly half believe God favours the liberal stance, the other half believe the traditionalist view.  In casting their votes on the matter, these people are expressing their view of what god wants.  This is nothing to do with self interest, these are people split over a theological issue and they cannot all be correct.  If what you claim were true, then God would intervene to correct christians who were expressing a mistaken witness to God's will.

A bit of clarification is needed here.  There is a difference in discerning God's will and proclaiming that God has asked you personally to do something in His name.  The former is not an exact science and is open to various forms of corruption and mis interpretation.  The latter can only de done by a genuine Christian under God's influence, or someone who is totally deluded and under the influence of something evil.

Just remember that this bit of discussion was started by Flo asking if I would kill one of my children if I felt certain that God was asking me to do it.  It is not about discernment of God's will, but obeying His direct orders.  As a Christian, I do not believe that God would allow me to mis interpret a direct order.

If you truly believed the deity had given you a direct order to kill one of your children, or anyone else for that matter, would you obey?