The result of the EU referendum:

[ad_orientem]

The EU is just part of the neo-liberal globalist scheme,

Evidence please.

The current economic crisis proves that it is. What does it advocate? Austerity, erosion of workers right, privasitation and cutting back the welfare state, it does nothing to ensure that multinationals actually pay taxes to the countries in which they operate etc. The EU is designed by and solely for the self-serving politicians and multinationals who take all the cream from the top.

[wigginhall]

I think that austerity has been one of the key economic measures used in the EU, to deal with the crash, and it tends to slow economies down.  The US has used more traditional Keynesian measures (stimulus).

However, neoliberal politicians also do this; for example, Osborne realized after a couple of years that he had stalled the economy, and began some stimulus injection of his own, so for example, we now have house price inflation, big projects in the south east and so on.   However, the commitment to neoliberalism is also ideological - small state, privatization, sell off of companies (e.g. ICI), cuts to welfare, wage control, high bonuses.  Enjoy!

[jakswan]

The EU is just part of the neo-liberal globalist scheme,

Evidence please.

The current economic crisis proves that it is. What does it advocate? Austerity, erosion of workers right, privasitation and cutting back the welfare state, it does nothing to ensure that multinationals actually pay taxes to the countries in which they operate etc. The EU is designed by and solely for the self-serving politicians and multinationals who take all the cream from the top.

Bring back the glory days of the Soviet State?

[Harrowby Hall]

 ... sell off of companies (e.g. ICI) ...

So who sold off ICI? Not the government. It was a public company, not a nationalised company.

If I recall correctly, ICI collapsed, the victim of incompetent management. It ended up being reduced to its component parts with each being sold to anyone who would buy it. Capitalism at its most naked.

[ad_orientem]

The EU is just part of the neo-liberal globalist scheme,

Evidence please.

The current economic crisis proves that it is. What does it advocate? Austerity, erosion of workers right, privasitation and cutting back the welfare state, it does nothing to ensure that multinationals actually pay taxes to the countries in which they operate etc. The EU is designed by and solely for the self-serving politicians and multinationals who take all the cream from the top.

Bring back the glory days of the Soviet State?

Well, you're just being silly now. Who said anything about Soviet state? Unless you're trying to argue that a strong public sector, the welfare state, workers' rights and curbing the unethical practices of multinationals are peculiar to "the Soviet State"?

[wigginhall]

 ... sell off of companies (e.g. ICI) ...

So who sold off ICI? It was a public company, not a nationalised company.

If I recall correctly, ICI collapsed, the victim of incompetent management. It ended up being reduced to its component parts with each being sold to anyone who would buy it. Capitalism at its most naked.

I wasn't saying that the state sold off ICI, but that in a neoliberal system it's more likely that such sales will happen, as certain companies prowl the world economy, looking for assets to strip.  Even under Thatcher, ICI was seen as a national treasure.  This is seen as sentimental under neoliberalism - who cares if your water company is owned by a global company, the shareholders love it.

[Harrowby Hall]

 ... sell off of companies (e.g. ICI) ...

So who sold off ICI? It was a public company, not a nationalised company.



If I recall correctly, ICI collapsed, the victim of incompetent management. It ended up being reduced to its component parts with each being sold to anyone who would buy it. Capitalism at its most naked.

I wasn't saying that the state sold off ICI, but that in a neoliberal system it's more likely that such sales will happen, as certain companies prowl the world economy, looking for assets to strip.  Even under Thatcher, ICI was seen as a national treasure.  This is seen as sentimental under neoliberalism - who cares if your water company is owned by a global company, the shareholders love it.

OK - I stand corrected.

I agree about the public perception of ICI. Not only the company but its chairman, John Harvey Jones was seen as a national treasure. At least, he was not responsible for its catastrophic decline.

[wigginhall]

Also, I think this happened under Labour, who went hell for leather for neoliberal policies, and they are still reaping the rewards!

[wigginhall]

 Going back to Osborne, another amusing story is that Balls consistently predicted that the cuts would stall the economy, which duly happened.  Of course, no way in hell was Osborne going to agree that plan A wasn't working, but he began to introduce stimulus measures, as Balls had recommended, while denying it like mad.  This is politics for you, Osborne triumphant, Balls watching daytime TV.

[Rhiannon]

Osborne is a wanker.

Just saying...

[jakswan]

The EU is just part of the neo-liberal globalist scheme,

Evidence please.

The current economic crisis proves that it is. What does it advocate? Austerity, erosion of workers right, privasitation and cutting back the welfare state, it does nothing to ensure that multinationals actually pay taxes to the countries in which they operate etc. The EU is designed by and solely for the self-serving politicians and multinationals who take all the cream from the top.

Bring back the glory days of the Soviet State?

Well, you're just being silly now. Who said anything about Soviet state? Unless you're trying to argue that a strong public sector, the welfare state, workers' rights and curbing the unethical practices of multinationals are peculiar to "the Soviet State"?

Yes I'm the one being silly, all a neo-liberal conspiracy.

[ad_orientem]

Sorry, are you American? From the stupidity of your answer one can only infer that you are.

[jakswan]

Sorry, are you American? From the stupidity of your answer one can only infer that you are.

I don't think I'm going to have a reasoned discussion with someone who takes the view 'The EU is designed by and solely for the self-serving politicians and multinationals who take all the cream from the top', sorry.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Wigs,

who cares if your water company is owned by a global company, the shareholders love it.

Water, shareholders, people actually making profit out of water.

Or is it just me, where I go wrong is in thinking I can invade Poland with flowers in my hair, your gonna meet some gentle people there.

Gonnagle.

[Rhiannon]

Dear Wigs,

who cares if your water company is owned by a global company, the shareholders love it.

Water, shareholders, people actually making profit out of water.

Or is it just me, where I go wrong is in thinking I can invade Poland with flowers in my hair, your gonna meet some gentle people there.

Gonnagle.

No, what they actually make a profit from is taking your waste away, cleaning it, testing it and delivering it back to you in drinkable form.

Do you have any idea how much it costs to keep our water safe from bio terrorists?

[Shaker]

Balls watching daytime TV.

... a phrase which continues to work on other levels if you rearrange the words, curiously enough.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,


You can paint it anyway you want to, simple fact is that we all need water to survive, I don't mind paying to have water piped to my home, paying someone to clean it and protect it, what I mind is someone profiting from doing it, but I am open to having my mind changed, argue that it is okay to make profit from supplying water.

Gonnagle.

[Rhiannon]

My argument would be that companies supplying water don't know what changes lie ahead so they need to plan for drought, flood, terrorism etc. That needs a profit to invest if we dint want a tax increase or increase in costs.

What makes me uncomfortable is that these companies are not UK based. But that might be irrational.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,

I don't know what kind of territory we are straying into here, but my thinking is that companies run especially for shareholders, but again I could be wrong.

Gonnagle.

[Rhiannon]

Yes they are. But if they screw up they get sued, their company's worthless and their profits go down the swanny. Or governments intervene. Therefore planning on running a company well, including maintaining supply and customer safety, is essential. There's no profit in a husiness that can't supply what it sells.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,

Sorry but your arguments are not working, and I am not saying you are wrong, just makes no sense to me.

My thinking, we all baulk at any privatization of the NHS, a very basic commodity like water and we allow it to be in the hands of profiteers.

I am not against someone making a profit, but water

Gonnagle.

[L.A.]

The EU is jst part of the neo-liberal globalust scheme, designed to make the well-off richer and kerp the less well-off in their place. The UK leaving the EU would therefore be a good thing in the hope that it would mean the beginning of the enx of the EU.

I assume that you mean 'a good thing' in terms of making most of us a lot less rich?

Right! If you mean the elite, then yes, but most, no. The EU has bought in to the austerity myth and most are suffering.

Elite can be a relative word. Those 'poor' EU citizens who are 'suffering' from austerity might be regarded as doing very nicely by many of those outside of the EU.

Yes, I'm sure that's of much comfort to those who are losing lost their jobs or those who are seeing the welfare state gradually being eroded away.

I think that it could be could argued that the current depressed state of the EU is due to the socialist policies being pursued by some governments, and maybe that could be an argument for UK withdrawal.

[Rhiannon]

Dear Rhiannon,

Sorry but your arguments are not working, and I am not saying you are wrong, just makes no sense to me.

My thinking, we all baulk at any privatization of the NHS, a very basic commodity like water and we allow it to be in the hands of profiteers.

I am not against someone making a profit, but water

Gonnagle.

One of my kids did a trip to a water company and the security was akin to that at a nuclear power plant. The state pays, or the company pays out of its profits.

The NHS is can't cope. Are you suggesting we burden the state with supplying our water as well?

[jakswan]

we all baulk at any privatization of the NHS,

Do we?

I did hear one Doctor claim 40% of the care provided by the NHS comes from the private sector.

GP's are private.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,

Burden the state!! Yes, and yes the company does pay out of their profits, is that before or after the shareholders are sorted out.

Gonnagle.