The result of the EU referendum:

[jeremyp]

The EU is just part of the neo-liberal globalist scheme,

Evidence please.

The current economic crisis proves that it is.

How?

[ad_orientem]

The EU is just part of the neo-liberal globalist scheme,

Evidence please.

The current economic crisis proves that it is.

How?

In the same post I explain why I think so, but you didn't bother quotng that part.

[jeremyp]

The EU is just part of the neo-liberal globalist scheme,

Evidence please.

The current economic crisis proves that it is.

How?

In the same post I explain why I think so, but you didn't bother quotng that part.

But your explanation was just more assertions from you.  You saying something doesn't make it true.

[jeremyp]

Let's examine your assertions in a little more detail

This is the original assertion.

The EU is just part of the neo-liberal globalist scheme,

This is the post claimed to be proof

The current economic crisis proves that it is. What does it advocate? Austerity, erosion of workers right, privasitation and cutting back the welfare state, it does nothing to ensure that multinationals actually pay taxes to the countries in which they operate etc. The EU is designed by and solely for the self-serving politicians and multinationals who take all the cream from the top.

Austerity, erosion of workers right, privasitation and cutting back the welfare state

Funny, I thought these were ideas advocated by the current British government.  The EU is perceived (in the UK, at least) as going the other way.

it does nothing to ensure that multinationals actually pay taxes to the countries in which they operate etc.

The EU doesn't have jurisdiction over individual countries' tax law.  Even so, I think you'll find that many companies do pay taxes in at least one EU country.

The EU is designed by and solely for the self-serving politicians and multinationals who take all the cream from the top.

Citation needed.

[ad_orientem]

Just look at what it's asking Greece to do, as just one example, and it's all those things I mention. Neo liberal economics, as plain as plain can be. With any lick the English will vote to leave and that will be the beginning of the end of the EU.

[wigginhall]

Surely, there are different types of neo-liberalism.  For example, for many Tories, the EU is too favourable to workers' rights, but the EU still favours privatization and austerity, as do the World Bank and IMF.  In fact, you will struggle to find people rejecting neo-liberalism - the Labour party supports it.  Maybe Obama is more Keynesian.  Scandinavia was always cited as classic social democracy, but haven't they also gone towards neo-liberalism?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Wigs,

DEFINITION of 'Keynesian Economics'

An economic theory of total spending in the economy and its effects on output and inflation. Keynesian economics was developed by the British economist John Maynard Keynes during the 1930s in an attempt to understand the Great Depression. Keynes advocated increased government expenditures and lower taxes to stimulate demand and pull the global economy out of the Depression. Subsequently, the term “Keynesian economics” was used to refer to the concept that optimal economic performance could be achieved – and economic slumps prevented – by influencing aggregate demand through activist stabilization and economic intervention policies by the government. Keynesian economics is considered to be a “demand-side” theory that focuses on changes in the economy over the short run.


Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/k/keynesianeconomics.asp#ixzz3a1jjKPGL
Follow us: @Investopedia on Twitter

In a nutshell for us brain cell deficient, Government spends more and keeps taxes lower?

Gonnagle.

[jakswan]

Surely, there are different types of neo-liberalism.  For example, for many Tories, the EU is too favourable to workers' rights, but the EU still favours privatization and austerity, as do the World Bank and IMF.  In fact, you will struggle to find people rejecting neo-liberalism - the Labour party supports it.  Maybe Obama is more Keynesian.  Scandinavia was always cited as classic social democracy, but haven't they also gone towards neo-liberalism?

Economic liberalism? Does the EU favor privatization and austerity?

[ad_orientem]

Surely, there are different types of neo-liberalism.  For example, for many Tories, the EU is too favourable to workers' rights, but the EU still favours privatization and austerity, as do the World Bank and IMF.  In fact, you will struggle to find people rejecting neo-liberalism - the Labour party supports it.  Maybe Obama is more Keynesian.  Scandinavia was always cited as classic social democracy, but haven't they also gone towards neo-liberalism?

The Nordic countries were models of social democracies but not so much anymore. Here in Finland at the moment it's cut, cut, cut. The only thing preventing allout austerity is that Finns Party is now in government. As for workers' rights, the EU are eroding that to. The code word is "a more flexible, mobile worforce" or something similar to that. What it really means is making it easier to sack people, making it harder to get permanent fulltime contracts and getting cheap labour from abroad.

[wigginhall]

Dear Wigs,

DEFINITION of 'Keynesian Economics'

An economic theory of total spending in the economy and its effects on output and inflation. Keynesian economics was developed by the British economist John Maynard Keynes during the 1930s in an attempt to understand the Great Depression. Keynes advocated increased government expenditures and lower taxes to stimulate demand and pull the global economy out of the Depression. Subsequently, the term “Keynesian economics” was used to refer to the concept that optimal economic performance could be achieved – and economic slumps prevented – by influencing aggregate demand through activist stabilization and economic intervention policies by the government. Keynesian economics is considered to be a “demand-side” theory that focuses on changes in the economy over the short run.


Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/k/keynesianeconomics.asp#ixzz3a1jjKPGL
Follow us: @Investopedia on Twitter

In a nutshell for us brain cell deficient, Government spends more and keeps taxes lower?

Gonnagle.

Definitely govt spending, I think taxes vary.  The classic case is the US in the 30s, when Roosevelt tried public works (roads, dams), subsidies to farmers, with mixed results.

But all govts do this to an extent, Osborne did it quietly, hoping nobody would see it as plan B, plan A being austerity.  But I think Keynes said that too much austerity leads to stagnation, e.g. Japan for 20 years, I think, as there is no money sloshing around.  One solution is quantitative easing, but cynics say that the banks just pocket billions, thank you very much.

Another point is that K argued that running a deficit in govt is not unfortunate, but a necessity, to get out of recession, but others disagree!

[wigginhall]

Surely, there are different types of neo-liberalism.  For example, for many Tories, the EU is too favourable to workers' rights, but the EU still favours privatization and austerity, as do the World Bank and IMF.  In fact, you will struggle to find people rejecting neo-liberalism - the Labour party supports it.  Maybe Obama is more Keynesian.  Scandinavia was always cited as classic social democracy, but haven't they also gone towards neo-liberalism?

The Nordic countries were models of social democracies but not so much anymore. Here in Finland at the moment it's cut, cut, cut. The only thing preventing allout austerity is that Finns Party is now in government. As for workers' rights, the EU are eroding that to. The code word is "a more flexible, mobile worforce" or something similar to that. What it really means is making it easier to sack people, making it harder to get permanent fulltime contracts and getting cheap labour from abroad.

It's ironic that neo-liberalism, in the form of a financialized capitalism, led to the biggest economic crisis since the 30s, and the solution is said to be - more neo-liberalism.  This requires the hollowing out of the welfare state, increasing inequality, and the sell-off of anything valuable to global companies, who will maximize profits, and screw the customer.  Well, good luck to us all!

[L.A.]

Just look at what it's asking Greece to do, as just one example, and it's all those things I mention. Neo liberal economics, as plain as plain can be. With any lick the English will vote to leave and that will be the beginning of the end of the EU.

Greece is in a position equivalent to a person on the basic minimum wage whose bank have inadvertently given him a £100,000 credit limit and they have blown the lot! Even at the time, plenty of people pointed out that the Greek economy was not ready to enter the Eurozone, but they joined anyway and went on a spending spree.

Like the indebted individual, I suspect that the only solution is voluntary bankruptcy (or it's equivalent)

[jakswan]

Another point is that K argued that running a deficit in govt is not unfortunate, but a necessity, to get out of recession, but others disagree!

Absolutely and you can do that if you run a surplus at times of growth. Labour were running a deficit when the recession hit.

[Nearly Sane]

Another point is that K argued that running a deficit in govt is not unfortunate, but a necessity, to get out of recession, but others disagree!

Absolutely and you can do that if you run a surplus at times of growth. Labour were running a deficit when the recession hit.

Though they had reduced the deficit below any percentage it has been for thirty years at that stage. The Tories increased the deficit in % terms by three fold between 79 and 92

[jakswan]

Another point is that K argued that running a deficit in govt is not unfortunate, but a necessity, to get out of recession, but others disagree!

Absolutely and you can do that if you run a surplus at times of growth. Labour were running a deficit when the recession hit.

Though they had reduced the deficit below any percentage it has been for thirty years at that stage. The Tories increased the deficit in % terms by three fold between 79 and 92

Here is the full picture.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data

The point stands if Labour hadn't run a deficit prior to the crash then austerity needn't have been at the levels it was if at all. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Another point is that K argued that running a deficit in govt is not unfortunate, but a necessity, to get out of recession, but others disagree!

Absolutely and you can do that if you run a surplus at times of growth. Labour were running a deficit when the recession hit.

Though they had reduced the deficit below any percentage it has been for thirty years at that stage. The Tories increased the deficit in % terms by three fold between 79 and 92

Here is the full picture.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data

The point stands if Labour hadn't run a deficit prior to the crash then austerity needn't have been at the levels it was if at all.

Bollocks, since Austerity depressed wages as a device to make capital richer.

I hear the French are bouncing back economically. If they did this without L'Austerite then that puts ''Plan A'' under ther microscope.

[wigginhall]

UKIP is interesting in relation to neo-liberalism, as they seem to be in favour of it in some respects, e.g.privatizing things, but against it in others, e.g. free movement of labour, or cheap labour if you like.  But maybe all parties are inconsistent in the same way.

[jakswan]

Another point is that K argued that running a deficit in govt is not unfortunate, but a necessity, to get out of recession, but others disagree!

Absolutely and you can do that if you run a surplus at times of growth. Labour were running a deficit when the recession hit.

Though they had reduced the deficit below any percentage it has been for thirty years at that stage. The Tories increased the deficit in % terms by three fold between 79 and 92

Here is the full picture.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data

The point stands if Labour hadn't run a deficit prior to the crash then austerity needn't have been at the levels it was if at all.

Bollocks, since Austerity depressed wages as a device to make capital richer.

I hear the French are bouncing back economically. If they did this without L'Austerite then that puts ''Plan A'' under ther microscope.

If all else fails fart out a conspiracy theory.

[ad_orientem]

Yeah, right! The policies speak for themselves which we've already gone through. When they start doing something to make multnational corporations pay their fair share of tax to the countries in which they operate instead of first cutting back on the welare state, raising the retirement age, compromsing job security, all of the things which affect those on the lowest end of the wage scale the most then, and only then, might I change my mind that it's not all one big scheme by the richest to scape every last bit of creme from the top for themselves. It's an old boys club, I'm all right Jack, fuck the rest.

[jeremyp]

Just look at what it's asking Greece to do,

What?  Tell an economic basket case to get its house in order.  Greece's problems are not the fault of the EU - well, not the current EU.  There's a good case to be made that the one of 15 years ago was grossly negligent in admitting Greece into the Euro.

and it's all those things I mention.

As long as it's just you making unsubstantiated assertions, you've got nothing.

[ad_orientem]

Bury your head in the sand then.

[jakswan]

Yeah, right! The policies speak for themselves which we've already gone through.

When you say gone through you mean you ranted about them. I know this might come as a shock but your views don't count as arguments.

When they start doing something to:-

1. make multnational corporations pay their fair share of tax to the countries in which they operate then, and only then, might I change my mind that it's not all one big scheme by the richest to scape every last bit of creme from the top for themselves.

In the upcoming negotiations that is on the the Tories wish list and met with approval on Newsnight from an EU commentator.

Although that rather buggers things up for Ireland.

[King Oberon]

I don't think we have to worry to much about the EU ref.

The majority of 'business' tories, Labour, Lib Dems and the SNP don't want out and I would 'think' that public had enough sense to stay in as well except of course the 4 million numpties that voted for UKIP!!!

Good to see that the tories have a minute bit of sense and are expected to revolt against the insane scrapping of the human rights act.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-faces-tory-backbench-rebellion-over-plans-to-scrap-the-human-rights-act-10248313.html

Wont' belong now before there are protests in the streets with these idiots in charge.... You heard it here first 

[Nearly Sane]

Details of the proposed electoral register for referendum

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32872211?SThisFB

[Anchorman]

The jerrymandered rules of the referendum will exclude a Member of the Scottish Parliament from voting in it, but will allow an Irish or Maltese?

And we're supposed to respect the criminals in Westminster?
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/french-born-snp-msp-its-a-democratic-disgrace-that-i-cant-vote-in-eu-refe.1432560308