The result of the EU referendum:

[Hope]

Sounds like a puppet show.

Clearly not a particularly serious body   

[Nearly Sane]

The opening is usually finished with a song...and I well remember the very first song sung in 1999 - my friend folk singer Sheena Wellington singing "A man's a man for a; that", whicch ridicules the aristocracy, monarchy and states that
"The man o independant mind
he looks, and laughs at a that!"

Sounds like a puppet show.

I thought the Punch and Judy bit was PMQs at Westminster?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

Punch and Judy, House of Commons, very apt.

That's the way to do it!! or not as the case may be.

Our Jim talking about independent minds, yes to many politicians are towing the party line instead of voicing their own thoughts.

There was a speaker at the general assembly last week who said a private poll had been conducted asking all politicians standing in the election what their views were on trident, the majority voted to scrap it, wonder if our Jim could throw some light on this.

Gonnagle.

[jakswan]

The opening is usually finished with a song...and I well remember the very first song sung in 1999 - my friend folk singer Sheena Wellington singing "A man's a man for a; that", whicch ridicules the aristocracy, monarchy and states that
"The man o independant mind
he looks, and laughs at a that!"

Sounds like a puppet show.

I thought the Punch and Judy bit was PMQs at Westminster?

I think all politics has elements of a Puppet Show, Newzoids!

[Nearly Sane]

Didn't hear about the poll, Gonzo, but assuming it was Scottish candidates only, wouldn't surprise me. You could mark almost certainly all Green and SNP candidates down as anti Trident, probably a majority of Lib Dems, possibly 50/50 on Labour, and then nearly all the Tories and UKIP for it.


Some Tories might have been against it, notes Michael Portillo is now anti renewal. The one Labour MP, Ian Murray, would have been against it, though as noted elsewhere he may now vote for it as being Shadow Sec of State he is bound by collective responsibility

[Gordon]

Moderator:

Since this subject of this thread is likely to be relevant for some time it has been 'stickied'.

[BashfulAnthony]

The opening is usually finished with a song...and I well remember the very first song sung in 1999 - my friend folk singer Sheena Wellington singing "A man's a man for a; that", whicch ridicules the aristocracy, monarchy and states that
"The man o independant mind
he looks, and laughs at a that!"

Sounds like a puppet show.

I thought the Punch and Judy bit was PMQs at Westminster?

When the blessed Cameron became our beloved PM, he said he wanted to do away with the Punch and Judy aspect of PM's Questions.  As it is, he is the most vigorous exponent of the "style!"  Another lie, then.

[Nearly Sane]

What's wrong with treating the whole tradition bound absurdity with the disdain it deserves, BA?
When self-confessed liars such as Carmichael are addressed as r;right honourable gentlemen' when they are nothing of the sort, or 650 members try to plant their backsides in a leather clad playpen designed in 1945 to be too small for them, why shouldn't we treat the whole farce with contempt?

Parliament is their to represent the people.  To treat it with derision is to deride the people.  If the SNP, in it's minority, considers it absurd, then they are free to use their democratically held mandate to campaign for change.  Their reported conduct is infantile and disrespectful to this country as a whole.

In terms of the charges of being infantile, worth listening to this, the first maiden speech of the new parliament by Brendan O'Hara, MP for Argyll and Bute, and to Jacob Rees Mogg's comments at the end.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f4NObZwYJDk&feature=youtu.be

[BashfulAnthony]

What's wrong with treating the whole tradition bound absurdity with the disdain it deserves, BA?
When self-confessed liars such as Carmichael are addressed as r;right honourable gentlemen' when they are nothing of the sort, or 650 members try to plant their backsides in a leather clad playpen designed in 1945 to be too small for them, why shouldn't we treat the whole farce with contempt?

Parliament is their to represent the people.  To treat it with derision is to deride the people.  If the SNP, in it's minority, considers it absurd, then they are free to use their democratically held mandate to campaign for change.  Their reported conduct is infantile and disrespectful to this country as a whole.

In terms of the charges of being infantile, worth listening to this, the first maiden speech of the new parliament by Brendan O'Hara, MP for Argyll and Bute, and to Jacob Rees Mogg's comments at the end.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f4NObZwYJDk&feature=youtu.be

I think Rees Mogg must have been out of the Chamber earlier when Speaker Bercow had to reprimand the SNP Members for clapping their fellow's speech, which is was strictly against Parliamentary etiquette

[Shaker]

Parliament is their to represent the people. To treat it with derision is to deride the people. If the SNP, in it's minority, considers it absurd, then they are free to use their democratically held mandate to campaign for change. Their reported conduct is infantile and disrespectful to this country as a whole.

No, this doesn't even begin to get off the ground as a serious argument. We live in a representative democracy - we elect people who are supposed to do our collective bidding.

In practice however MPs so rarely do represent the will of the people that to deride MPs is not anywhere near the same as deriding the people. It simply doesn't follow that to mock, deride and belittle MPs is to mock, deride and belittle those who elected them, because I believe that the vast majority of people who bother to vote do so out of sincere, even noble, if unrealistically idealistic, motives: it's not their fault if their hopes are dashed by a bunch of ultimately self-serving career politicians.

[BashfulAnthony]

Parliament is their to represent the people. To treat it with derision is to deride the people. If the SNP, in it's minority, considers it absurd, then they are free to use their democratically held mandate to campaign for change. Their reported conduct is infantile and disrespectful to this country as a whole.

No, this doesn't even begin to get off the ground as a serious argument. We live in a representative democracy - we elect people who are supposed to do our collective bidding.

In practice however MPs so rarely do represent the will of the people that to deride MPs is not anywhere near the same as deriding the people. It simply doesn't follow that to mock, deride and belittle MPs is to mock, deride and belittle those who elected them, because I believe that the vast majority of people who bother to vote do so out of sincere, even noble, if unrealistically idealistic, motives: it's not their fault if their hopes are dashed by a bunch of ultimately self-serving career politicians.

However self-serving and disreputable many MP's are, it was not they that the childish SNP's were mocking: it was Parliament itself, representing the people of this land, and in particular the English who they see as the "enemy."   It was silly, pointless and in the end unproductive.

I see, Shaky, that your grasp of politics and what is happening at present, is as tenuous as your grasp of the education system.

[jeremyp]

And pray tell us all of the dreadful behaviour

You'll be shocked when you hear what they did... they clapped a speech by their leader!!!!!!!!!

Yes, exactly. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

How can Cameron get all the member states to have referendum or pass legislation changing their European treaty legislation so that he can have a referendum in the UK. Hammond has already said the speed of this is down to other states. There isn't going to be a referendum any time soon unless Cameron's demands are less than that.

[BashfulAnthony]

How can Cameron get all the member states to have referendum or pass legislation changing their European treaty legislation so that he can have a referendum in the UK. Hammond has already said the speed of this is down to other states. There isn't going to be a referendum any time soon unless Cameron's demands are less than that.

Cameron's demands are never going to be met.  The best he can hope for is a cobbled package of nothing in particular, and then try and claim he has succeeded.

[jakswan]

Nicola Sturgeon warns of EU exit 'backlash'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32961729

Yikes this is a dangerous game, Sturgeon is toxic in many parts of the UK, threatening them is going to lead to voters away from a Yes. It this stupid or very clever as it delivers what SNP wants, another referendum.

[BashfulAnthony]

Nicola Sturgeon warns of EU exit 'backlash'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32961729

Yikes this is a dangerous game, Sturgeon is toxic in many parts of the UK, threatening them is going to lead to voters away from a Yes. It this stupid or very clever as it delivers what SNP wants, another referendum.

That, of course, is their modus operandi, in this Parliament.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jakswan,

Threatening!! where?

Or is it simply the case that you and many others fell for the Tory ploy of using the SNP as a reason not to vote for Labour.

Gonnagle.

[jakswan]

Threatening!! where?

Or is it simply the case that you and many others fell for the Tory ploy of using the SNP as a reason not to vote for Labour.

I'm a LibDem so I didn't fall for the tory ploy.

[BashfulAnthony]

I've been criticising the SNP, freely;  but this afternoon I watched Philippa Whitford speaking on the NHS in Parliament.  She is a surgeon, who has spent time working in Gaza, and spoke with great common sense on the functions and needs of the NHS.  I was most impressed.  She is the kind of c, however talented an individual may be 

[Hope]

Nicola Sturgeon warns of EU exit 'backlash'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32961729

Yikes this is a dangerous game, Sturgeon is toxic in many parts of the UK, threatening them is going to lead to voters away from a Yes. It this stupid or very clever as it delivers what SNP wants, another referendum.

I think it is the latter, as it is clear the SNP secretly wants Scotland out of the EU - their leaders just don't want that to get into the public domain.

By the way - and we were discussing this in the TWAM unit in Penarth this morning - how long will it take for a newly-independent Scotland to be expelled from the EU?

[Nearly Sane]

Nicola Sturgeon warns of EU exit 'backlash'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32961729

Yikes this is a dangerous game, Sturgeon is toxic in many parts of the UK, threatening them is going to lead to voters away from a Yes. It this stupid or very clever as it delivers what SNP wants, another referendum.

I think it is the latter, as it is clear the SNP secretly wants Scotland out of the EU - their leaders just don't want that to get into the public domain.

By the way - and we were discussing this in the TWAM unit in Penarth this morning - how long will it take for a newly-independent Scotland to be expelled from the EU?

(a) no, they don't

(b) what conclusion did this high powered think tank come to?

[Owlswing]

Nicola Sturgeon warns of EU exit 'backlash'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32961729

Yikes this is a dangerous game, Sturgeon is toxic in many parts of the UK, threatening them is going to lead to voters away from a Yes. It this stupid or very clever as it delivers what SNP wants, another referendum.

I think it is the latter, as it is clear the SNP secretly wants Scotland out of the EU - their leaders just don't want that to get into the public domain.

By the way - and we were discussing this in the TWAM unit in Penarth this morning - how long will it take for a newly-independent Scotland to be expelled from the EU?

(a) no, they don't

(b) what conclusion did this high powered think tank come to?

And you know this how?

[Nearly Sane]

Nicola Sturgeon warns of EU exit 'backlash'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32961729

Yikes this is a dangerous game, Sturgeon is toxic in many parts of the UK, threatening them is going to lead to voters away from a Yes. It this stupid or very clever as it delivers what SNP wants, another referendum.

I think it is the latter, as it is clear the SNP secretly wants Scotland out of the EU - their leaders just don't want that to get into the public domain.

By the way - and we were discussing this in the TWAM unit in Penarth this morning - how long will it take for a newly-independent Scotland to be expelled from the EU?

(a) no, they don't

(b) what conclusion did this high powered think tank come to?

And you know this how?

I know them. I know many of the MPs. It is clear policy to stay in Europe. Perhaps ask why Hope thinks it isn't, since he is the one touting the extremely complex conspiracy theory.

[jakswan]

Nicola Sturgeon warns of EU exit 'backlash'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32961729

Yikes this is a dangerous game, Sturgeon is toxic in many parts of the UK, threatening them is going to lead to voters away from a Yes. It this stupid or very clever as it delivers what SNP wants, another referendum.

I think it is the latter, as it is clear the SNP secretly wants Scotland out of the EU - their leaders just don't want that to get into the public domain.

By the way - and we were discussing this in the TWAM unit in Penarth this morning - how long will it take for a newly-independent Scotland to be expelled from the EU?

Not seeing that they like the European Union not the Union with England.

[jeremyp]

Nicola Sturgeon warns of EU exit 'backlash'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32961729

Yikes this is a dangerous game, Sturgeon is toxic in many parts of the UK, threatening them is going to lead to voters away from a Yes. It this stupid or very clever as it delivers what SNP wants, another referendum.

I think it is the latter, as it is clear the SNP secretly wants Scotland out of the EU - their leaders just don't want that to get into the public domain.

By the way - and we were discussing this in the TWAM unit in Penarth this morning - how long will it take for a newly-independent Scotland to be expelled from the EU?

(a) no, they don't

(b) what conclusion did this high powered think tank come to?

And you know this how?

Do you remember the referendum debate?  How Alex Salmond was insisting that Scotland would more or less automatically join the EU after independence and everybody else including senior EU people were pointing out that it wouldn't be the case.  The SNP wants independence only from the English not from overlords in general.