The result of the EU referendum:

[cyberman]

And the amendment to change electoral role to allow 16/17 year olds to vote is defeated 310- 265

I must say, while I have no deep opposition to lowering the voting age, I haven't seen a compelling case put forward as to why it should be done, and why it should be set at 16 if it were done.

[jeremyp]

And the amendment to change electoral role to allow 16/17 year olds to vote is defeated 310- 265

I must say, while I have no deep opposition to lowering the voting age,

I do.  They're children.

[BashfulAnthony]

And the amendment to change electoral role to allow 16/17 year olds to vote is defeated 310- 265

I must say, while I have no deep opposition to lowering the voting age,

I do.  They're children.

Quite so.

[floo]

I think lowering the voting age would be a silly mistake, many kids of that age are not informed, or interested enough, to make a sensible decision.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I think lowering the voting age would be a silly mistake, many kids of that age are not informed, or interested enough, to make a sensible decision.

I find the attitude of the Labour Party to youngsters to be bizarre. When in power, they turned sixteen & seventeen year olds back into schoolchildren by making them stay at school, & denying them the adult right to have sex with whom they wanted. Now in opposition, they want to give them the vote.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think lowering the voting age would be a silly mistake, many kids of that age are not informed, or interested enough, to make a sensible decision.

I find the attitude of the Labour Party to youngsters to be bizarre. When in power, they turned sixteen & seventeen year olds back into schoolchildren by making them stay at school, & denying them the adult right to have sex with whom they wanted. Now in opposition, they want to give them the vote.

As far as I know they signed a united nations charter primarily designed to stop kids in the third world who are desperate for an eduction being denied it and being instead being coopted into becoming Child soldiers.

I can't see the Conservatives wanting to change it since Youth Unemployment figures would Skyrocket.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I think lowering the voting age would be a silly mistake, many kids of that age are not informed, or interested enough, to make a sensible decision.

I find the attitude of the Labour Party to youngsters to be bizarre. When in power, they turned sixteen & seventeen year olds back into schoolchildren by making them stay at school, & denying them the adult right to have sex with whom they wanted. Now in opposition, they want to give them the vote.

As far as I know they signed a united nations charter primarily designed to stop kids in the third world who are desperate for an eduction being denied it and being instead being coopted into becoming Child soldiers.

I can't see the Conservatives wanting to change it since Youth Unemployment figures would Skyrocket.

Yes but that was not the way they presented it, Alan Johnson came out with some guff about "Nobody should be denied a proper education". As for the sex bit that was Harpy in her clumsy way trying obtain more rape convictions.

You are of course spot on with your final line.

[Jack Knave]

A case put forward for having an EFTA option for the UK in the referendum, as this is the most favoured by the British public or the one that many would feel is a good option, even by those who want out.

http://www.ukipdaily.com/efta-self-government-winning-with-european-allies/


"The EU has been able to take away so much of self-government, by having collaborators in each country, mainly in the areas of big party politicians, big business, big finance and big media. These cartels are not in favour of democracy and prosperity for the many."

[Outrider]

And the amendment to change electoral role to allow 16/17 year olds to vote is defeated 310- 265

I must say, while I have no deep opposition to lowering the voting age,

I do.  They're children.

Which would be fair enough if they weren't being taxed on their earnings, having to pay full-fare on transport, being taxed on their clothing, allowed to join the army and die for their country...

If we're going to set an arbitrary age at which we deem people to be 'adults' (and I don't see any other way of running things than just setting an arbitrary age) it needs to be consistently applied for everything.

Why are people adults at 14 for train fare, 16 for joining the army or having sex, but 18 for buying cigarettes or voting?

O.

[Hope]

If we're going to set an arbitrary age at which we deem people to be 'adults' (and I don't see any other way of running things than just setting an arbitrary age) it needs to be consistently applied for everything.

Why are people adults at 14 for train fare, 16 for joining the army or having sex, but 18 for buying cigarettes or voting?

O, I'd agree.  As such, I'd have it higher than lower.  Whilst I accept that sex isn't only for procreation, it is the only natural way of procreation so the issue has to be considered when looking at the matter.  In the late 1990s, the World Health Organisation stated that, globally, whilst girls were often mature enough to conceive as young as 12 the average age at which their bodies are strong enough to give birth safely was nearer 18.  I doubt whether that age will have dropped by more than a year, and therefore this could be used as a marker.

[Hope]

Scare tactics. people spout Bollocks and sometimes people swallow it. George Osborne is particularly gifted at it. In fact I can envisage a time when they lumpen yeomen realise that he is billying them but string along within because the love him.

No, not scare tactics, Vlad.  There are several EU nations who have movements within their own citizens who would like independence - eg the Basques and the Catalans in Spain; the Basques in France; Sardinian and Sicilian separatists in Italy; the Kurds in Turkey.  They fear that, if Scotland becomes independent of the UK and is granted EU membership it will encourage the separatist hopes of these and other movements.

[Nearly Sane]

Latest EU polls in Scotland, apparently on the UK view this is at 52-36 stay in in this poll.


http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/1332757-support-among-scots-to-remain-in-eu-at-strongest-yet-poll-finds/

[Nearly Sane]

And now overall polls putting it neck and neck - one 42-41 stay, other 40-42 go. Ladbrokes now has BrExit at .4 which is a new high up from .23 in August.

[Jack Knave]

And now overall polls putting it neck and neck - one 42-41 stay, other 40-42 go. Ladbrokes now has BrExit at .4 which is a new high up from .23 in August.

I bet the EU think they can buy the UK off the same way they bought the stupid Irish and have now put them into serfdom. My main fear is that the British voters are just as stupid.

I reckon the reason why the renegotiations result has been put off till February is so that the EU can push the Brits as far as they can, that is annoy them, to see how much they need to give away to keep the UK in the EU. That may be why there is only one stumbling block so they can focus on that and come up with the prearranged solution to fit the annoyance level, and give Cameron the big paper waving victory....? 

But this whole process has made Cameron look like a real pillock, and he has totally misjudged things!!!

[Brownie]

Responding to a comment made earlier in the thread, sixteen year olds are allowed to join the army but do not go overseas to fight until they are eighteen so they will not die for their country.

[Nearly Sane]

Interesting that there will be a free vote for Tories, and I suspect Labour as well. While it allows open dissent, it also increases the chance of a split post result.

[jakswan]

Sturgeon
There are lots of jobs and investment in Scotland dependent on our membership of the Union.

According to the SNP this is true if the Union is EU.

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

The draft EU reforms are substantial says Cameron.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35467479

*************

David Cameron has said a draft deal on his reform demands delivers the "substantial change" he wants to see to the UK's relationship with the EU.

But the UK prime minister said there was "detail to be worked on" before a crunch summit on 18-19 February.

The deal, published by European Council President Donald Tusk, allows for an "emergency brake" on migrant benefits.

The BBC's Norman Smith said the document was hugely controversial and would be resisted by the PM's critics.

Mr Cameron's proposed four year ban on in-work benefits for EU migrant workers could come into force immediately if the UK votes to remain in the Union.

But it would have to be agreed by other EU nations and it would be "graduated", with more money from tax credits paid to migrants the longer they remain in the UK.

It says Mr Cameron's demand to exempt Britain from the EU principle of "ever closer union" between member states would be written into a future treaty.

There are also measures relating to protection for non-euro countries in the EU, a new way for member states to club together to block some new EU laws and on business regulations.

Mr Cameron will visit Poland and Denmark on Friday, as he embarks on a whirlwind charm offensive to persuade the other 27 EU leaders to sign up to the Tusk package in Brussels on February 18-19.

If Mr Cameron can get an agreement in February, he is expected to hold a referendum in June on whether Britain should remain in the EU.

*************

Any views?

Sriram

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sriram,

as he embarks on a whirlwind charm offensive

HA HA HA HO HO HO HO HA HA HA, stop it you are killing me

There has been some wonderful banter on the forum today but that takes the biscuit

Gonnagle.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

The emphasis has now moved to refugees from outside the EU.

I shall vote to stay in, as far as I am concerned this referendum is a pointless waste of money.

[Aruntraveller]

Gonners

Do I detect a hint, nay a soupçon of disbelief in your post.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Trent,

Sorry old son but I still have a huge smile on my face, if we have to rely on that man's charm, oh God!!

Gonnagle.

PS: No that is not Blasphemy, it is a heart felt plea.

[Aruntraveller]

Dear Trent,

Sorry old son but I still have a huge smile on my face, if we have to rely on that man's charm, oh God!!

Gonnagle.

PS: No that is not Blasphemy, it is a heart felt plea.

I know - I can see the leaders all over Europe really looking forward to the pig lover turning up on their doorsteps.

[Gordon]

Moderator:

Just to say that I've merged the posts from the thread that Sriram started earlier into this established sticky thread (minus the posts that pointed out there was an existing thread on this subject).

[jakswan]

I'm for out currently, don't see a reason to stay in.