Author Topic: The result of the EU referendum:  (Read 257196 times)

L.A.

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #725 on: April 20, 2016, 11:40:22 AM »
So you want to be ruled by and from Brussels.

             ~TW~

I would say that accepting some trade regulations from Brussels is infinitely preferable to being at the mercy of Beijing and Washington. Britain would be a small player facing the 'Big Boys' alone.
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L.A.

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #726 on: April 20, 2016, 11:53:29 AM »
I'll do it for him, by 2030 each household will be £43,000 better off, there I just made something up just like Osborne. :)

It may be an imperfect process, but the Treasury do spend quite a lot of time and money developing computer models of our economy. If the BREXITors disagree with the predictions, it would be useful if they explained exactly why they are dismissing results that politicians in normal circumstances would take very seriously.
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jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #727 on: April 20, 2016, 12:26:24 PM »
It may be an imperfect process, but the Treasury do spend quite a lot of time and money developing computer models of our economy. If the BREXITors disagree with the predictions, it would be useful if they explained exactly why they are dismissing results that politicians in normal circumstances would take very seriously.

I dismiss the results because its hard to predict GDP for one year in the future its impossible to do it for 14 years.

I also dismiss the results because when Osborne says (based on his guesses) 'each household will £4,300 poorer' he is lying.

The worse case model predicts we will be richer, so we'll be richer, independent and free.

Funny all the doom mongers 'we won't be able to feed ourselves' yet the report you rely shows we will be 31% better off in GDP terms!
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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~TW~

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #728 on: April 20, 2016, 12:28:07 PM »
It may be an imperfect process, but the Treasury do spend quite a lot of time and money developing computer models of our economy. If the BREXITors disagree with the predictions, it would be useful if they explained exactly why they are dismissing results that politicians in normal circumstances would take very seriously.

 Let me give you some advice go to your front door look around and ask yourself are you happy with the state and condition of this country,If yes stick around and I will try to open your eyes.

               ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

Gonnagle

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #729 on: April 20, 2016, 12:49:12 PM »
Dear TW,

Just did, some nice tree's beginning to bud, bit of traffic, pub across the road is open, a few punters going in for a pint and a sandwich, what else, oh! the local butchers is open and he has lots of customers, all seems fine to me ;)

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

~TW~

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #730 on: April 20, 2016, 01:16:49 PM »
Dear TW,

Just did, some nice tree's beginning to bud, bit of traffic, pub across the road is open, a few punters going in for a pint and a sandwich, what else, oh! the local butchers is open and he has lots of customers, all seems fine to me ;)

Gonnagle.

 Yes Gonna that is typical of you beer pubs and food you have been dead to world around you for years,this is what you miss.So get out more.

                                                                             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0yySHkGmKY


                           ~TW~

                                                                   
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #731 on: April 20, 2016, 01:22:13 PM »
Not seen the slightest good argument to remain now I discover I'm on the same side as TW. Time to buy an EU flag and start humming the EU national anthem! :)
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

~TW~

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #732 on: April 20, 2016, 01:36:02 PM »
Not seen the slightest good argument to remain now I discover I'm on the same side as TW. Time to buy an EU flag and start humming the EU national anthem! :)

 Well at least you have the brains to be right about something  I AM IMPRESSED really IMPRESSED keep up the good work Jack for these lost souls need you. :)

  ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

L.A.

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #733 on: April 20, 2016, 01:48:30 PM »
I dismiss the results because its hard to predict GDP for one year in the future its impossible to do it for 14 years.

I also dismiss the results because when Osborne says (based on his guesses) 'each household will £4,300 poorer' he is lying.

I accept that economic models can never be perfect, but you can't just dismiss them out of hand - where is the BREXIT economic model? What are they offering apart from Gove's fantasy Free Trade Zone. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36086987

Quote
The worse case model predicts we will be richer, so we'll be richer, independent and free.

We can never be "independent and free" in the way that the BREXIT camp pretend, apart from the Super Powers, no country can. We will always have to comply to international agreements that we have entered into, and some of them won't be popular.
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~TW~

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #734 on: April 20, 2016, 01:54:13 PM »
I accept that economic models can never be perfect, but you can't just dismiss them out of hand - where is the BREXIT economic model? What are they offering apart from Gove's fantasy Free Trade Zone. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36086987

We can never be "independent and free" in the way that the BREXIT camp pretend, apart from the Super Powers, no country can. We will always have to comply to international agreements that we have entered into, and some of them won't be popular.

LA I was around before the EU and I am telling you, we,you,me,and all,will have a better life outside.
 ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #735 on: April 20, 2016, 01:57:32 PM »
LA I was around before the EU and I am telling you, we,you,me,and all,will have a better life outside.
 ~TW~
Yup we all had a fantastic life through the first half of the 20thC before the EU existed didn't we. A period of unprecedented peace and prosperity. :o

Aruntraveller

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #736 on: April 20, 2016, 02:02:38 PM »
Yup we all had a fantastic life through the first half of the 20thC before the EU existed didn't we. A period of unprecedented peace and prosperity. :o

Ah the good old days when you could go out and buy a luxury yacht and still have change from half a crown.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #737 on: April 20, 2016, 02:08:36 PM »
Ah the good old days when you could go out and buy a luxury yacht and still have change from half a crown.
In between the two world wars that resulted in millions of dead in europe, and of course just about the biggest recession we've known sandwiched between them.

Good times indeed.

~TW~

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #738 on: April 20, 2016, 02:10:12 PM »
Ah the good old days when you could go out and buy a luxury yacht and still have change from half a crown.

Yes was you around ? I was.Not only that the yacht was made in England

                          ~TW~.
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

Aruntraveller

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #739 on: April 20, 2016, 02:13:57 PM »
The sun must be over the yardarm     ::)
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Stranger

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #740 on: April 20, 2016, 02:15:09 PM »
Yes was you around ?

Good God man, you can't even write in the King's English!
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

~TW~

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #741 on: April 20, 2016, 02:15:44 PM »
The sun must be over the yardarm     ::)

 Yes but no cuckoos in the crows nest          have a look                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAq1q1_swyM


                                                      ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

L.A.

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #742 on: April 20, 2016, 02:49:35 PM »
LA I was around before the EU and I am telling you, we,you,me,and all,will have a better life outside.
 ~TW~

I'm sure we are all getting-on a bit TW and some of us may have a tendency to look back to a 'Golden Age' when Britannia Ruled the Waves - but for better of worse - I'm afraid all that has gone forever.
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floo

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #743 on: April 20, 2016, 02:54:30 PM »
We are better off in the EU than out of it, it was a good day when we joined.

~TW~

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #744 on: April 20, 2016, 03:10:45 PM »
I'm sure we are all getting-on a bit TW and some of us may have a tendency to look back to a 'Golden Age' when Britannia Ruled the Waves - but for better of worse - I'm afraid all that has gone forever.

 Yes true but it has been given an almighty shove since,------ in the EU.Look what it has done to floo complete la la.

                    ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

Bubbles

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #745 on: April 20, 2016, 03:13:49 PM »
I used to get more sweets for an old penny too.

Then they went all metric  :(

Mind you I wouldn't want to go back to old money it was too complicated. ( although I didn't think so at the time and hated the new money)

Quote

There were twenty (20) shillings per pound.

The shilling was subdivided into twelve (12) pennies.

The penny was further sub-divided into two halfpennies or four farthings (quarter pennies).

2 farthings = 1 halfpenny
2 halfpence = 1 penny (1d)
3 pence = 1 thruppence (3d)
6 pence = 1 sixpence (a 'tanner') (6d)
12 pence = 1 shilling (a bob) (1s)
2 shillings = 1 florin ( a 'two bob bit') (2s)
2 shillings and 6 pence = 1 half crown (2s 6d)
5 shillings = 1 Crown (5s)




Can you imagine going back to that?   :o

Some good old days are best left to memories.

I still have a soft spot for the old thruppenny bit though   :-*






« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 03:19:24 PM by Rose »

jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #746 on: April 20, 2016, 03:19:57 PM »
I accept that economic models can never be perfect, but you can't just dismiss them out of hand - where is the BREXIT economic model? What are they offering apart from Gove's fantasy Free Trade Zone. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36086987

You offer Osborne's fantasy I'll refute you with another fantasy.

Quote
We can never be "independent and free" in the way that the BREXIT camp pretend, apart from the Super Powers, no country can. We will always have to comply to international agreements that we have entered into, and some of them won't be popular.

All countries have to comply with international agreements.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

~TW~

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #747 on: April 20, 2016, 04:15:00 PM »
Jackswan I must go away again but I do hope you are not the only one on here with the sense to see how evil this EU is,and I hope these clowns,and they are clowns might see that they are being duped big time.

 I will try to look in, best of blessing Jack, fly the flag.

           ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

L.A.

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #748 on: April 20, 2016, 04:19:11 PM »
You offer Osborne's fantasy I'll refute you with another fantasy.
Osborne makes no outrageous claims, he offers basically the status quo plus the renegotiated reforms. it's Gove's who claims that we will be a part of "a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to" - which seems like a really attractive idea - except that such a free trade zone does not exist and no one has any immediate plans for forming one.

Quote
All countries have to comply with international agreements.
In theory yes, in practice:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/982f8146e10942b2b7f6a07e2077576d/trump-nafta-trade-deal-disaster-says-hed-break-it
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jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #749 on: April 20, 2016, 04:35:20 PM »
Osborne makes no outrageous claims, he offers basically the status quo plus the renegotiated reforms.

Its outrageous to make any claim about what a countries GDP would be in 14 years time, you would more accurate rolling a dice. Again, even if you rely on this, the country is still 31% richer than it is now. The report also assumes immigration remains at high  levels.

So lets look at this £4,300 per household nonsense, this is GDP divided by number of households, which today is £60,000 ish, yet average income today is c. £40,000, so its already at least 50% inflated. The number of predicted households is flawed (immigration figures wrong) and your £4,300 is quite likely to turn into nothing.

Also don't forget the £4,300 is not less then what you have now, the report which you rely on predicts if we leave we'll be richer in 14 years time.
Quote
it's Gove's who claims that we will be a part of "a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to" - which seems like a really attractive idea - except that such a free trade zone does not exist and no one has any immediate plans for forming one.

There is a an area from Iceland to Turkey in which there are no tariffs, the phrase 'free trade zone' seems accurate description of that area.

Quote
In theory yes, in practice:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/982f8146e10942b2b7f6a07e2077576d/trump-nafta-trade-deal-disaster-says-hed-break-it

Breaking a free trade deal is an option for all countries.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire