Author Topic: The result of the EU referendum:  (Read 257519 times)

jeremyp

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1050 on: May 04, 2016, 06:28:20 PM »
Bingo, therein lies the problem with EU, in your own words "the EU is a political and economic organisation" of countries that "do not share politics or economics".

I don't think so, you suggested that jobs\money going abroad was great because it makes other countries richer which will allow us eventually to become richer. I don't see, using this principle, why you don't think if you give me all your money why you won't be richer, or is it actually bollocks.
Still misrepresenting what I said, I see.
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jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1051 on: May 04, 2016, 09:19:56 PM »
Still misrepresenting what I said, I see.

In what way.  You have to stop making unfounded assertions.
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The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1052 on: May 04, 2016, 10:38:42 PM »
Migrants coming in usually raise the GDP of the country they migrate to. The U.K. has a skills shortage so need migrants. A larger percentage of the migrants from Eastern Europe have higher education compared to locals here and also migrants fill up low-skilled jobs that locals are unwilling to do, so it's good that they are here IMO. This increases productivity leading to more sales and higher profits, and is also good for the local economy because wages are spent on goods and services.

Migrants will however place an additional burden on infrastructure - schools, health etc.

A lot of them rent privately - lots of them sharing one property, and a lot of them are self-employed and will employ others in their businesses.

Some Poles have rented a house down our road and seem to be running some kind of logistics or transport business from there. The nuisance factor is their big vans take up parking spaces on the road, but on the other hand they are contributing to the economy.
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jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1053 on: May 05, 2016, 11:22:09 AM »
Migrants coming in usually raise the GDP of the country they migrate to. The U.K. has a skills shortage so need migrants. A larger percentage of the migrants from Eastern Europe have higher education compared to locals here and also migrants fill up low-skilled jobs that locals are unwilling to do, so it's good that they are here IMO. This increases productivity leading to more sales and higher profits, and is also good for the local economy because wages are spent on goods and services.

Migrants will however place an additional burden on infrastructure - schools, health etc.

A lot of them rent privately - lots of them sharing one property, and a lot of them are self-employed and will employ others in their businesses.

Some Poles have rented a house down our road and seem to be running some kind of logistics or transport business from there. The nuisance factor is their big vans take up parking spaces on the road, but on the other hand they are contributing to the economy.

I totally agree immigration is great for the economy, the issue is with uncontrolled immigration and the discrimination we show towards non-EU immigrants.

Even Jeremy will concede a number (be it 10million, 1million, 100,000) is going to causes problems so no one advocates no control.
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The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1054 on: May 05, 2016, 04:01:25 PM »
I agree with you that immigration should not be left totally uncontrolled so I agree with all the checks currently taking place at our borders before people are allowed into the country. I also think there is too much bureaucracy and waste in EU institutions - but given the mess that is the NHS I am not holding my breath that the Brits would be less wasteful and beureaucratic if they came out of the EU.

I think previous governments cocked up in their estimate of how many EU nationals would come over from the A8 countries and settle here and have kids, thereby putting pressure on schools and the health service, but it's done now and leaving the EU isn't going to change the fact that the UK needs young people who are motivated to work hard do the low level or less skilled jobs that Brits don't want to do, because there are no jobs in the A8 countries with an equivalent pay. It frees up Brits to specialise in other higher skilled areas.

 And what is so great about these recent migrants is they are better educated than many of the Brits who apply for jobs - I've hired Polish receptionists with degrees from Poland - their English is not as good as local people obviously but their productivity and self-motivation are great. And it's good for business to show diversity in our hiring policy, as we appeal to a wider range of customers.

Also when I speak to parents from the A8 countries they are surprised how little their kids are tested in schools in Britain compared to the weekly school tests back home.

My view is that free movement of labour and goods that comes from being part of the EU is helping our economy. Previously young Brits went to work in Europe in the countries whose economies were doing better than us, and EU nationals who came here helped boost our economy and supplied us with new skills and technology.

I support letting in non-EU nationals as well - as I said there is a skills shortage particularly in the IT and science sectors.

Foreigners living in crowded conditions brings house prices down in the area they move into, which I think is a good thing. I say this as a London homeowner who wants their kids to be able to afford to buy their own homes. Cultural changes - I'm not that bothered about - I think we'll figure it out so long as we become a little more tolerant and don't all become too PC. Migration to better living conditions and better jobs is what humans do, so I'm sure we've learnt the skills to adapt to it over the thousands of years it's been going on - IMO migrants should be forced to learn the language and there should be a policy that schools cannot have more than 40% of any one ethnic group. If that means kids have to travel further to get to school - tough, they're not made of glass, they won't break - it will be character-building and good for integration.

I think our government should invest in affordable housing and more school places rather than come out of the EU - that is what will be most beneficial to Britain.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 04:04:03 PM by Gabriella »
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Jack Knave

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1055 on: May 05, 2016, 07:35:29 PM »
Always the insults with you. I guess you must be out of your depth.
Well, yes, I've always found arguing with delusional, head in the clouds, unrealistic dreams and notions sorts, to put it nicely (we wouldn't want to wake up the Mods would we) beyond my capacities.  ;D

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1056 on: May 05, 2016, 07:44:04 PM »
 :) is this a joke-------I think our government should invest in affordable housing and more school places rather than come out of the EU - that is what will be most beneficial to Britain.

  How much is an affordable house also you forgot we need more hospitals,more health centres and you never told us what planet you are from.

             VOTE LEAVE.

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Hope

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1057 on: May 06, 2016, 02:57:18 PM »
Well, yes, I've always found arguing with delusional, head in the clouds, unrealistic dreams and notions sorts, to put it nicely (we wouldn't want to wake up the Mods would we) beyond my capacities.  ;D
Oh, so you're into arguing with yourself, eh, JK?   ;)
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Hope

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1058 on: May 06, 2016, 03:07:01 PM »
:) is this a joke-------I think our government should invest in affordable housing and more school places rather than come out of the EU - that is what will be most beneficial to Britain.

  How much is an affordable house also you forgot we need more hospitals,more health centres and you never told us what planet you are from.

             VOTE LEAVE.

                 ~TW~
Well, ~TW~ the very process of leaving the EU will cost the UK millions, let alone the additional costs that will accrue once we finally leave.  The process alone could take between 2 and 10 years, as we untangle ourselves from the agreements, contracts and relationships we are in.  How many affordable houses, hospitals, health centres and staff could that money be spent on?

Supporters of the Leave Campaign love to say that we will manage on our own by re-establishing trading agreements with Commonwealth and other nations.  That will be easier to say than do; whereas Australia, for instance, had a large trading package with the UK until the mid 1970s, most of what that involved has been redirected to what they regard as their 'domestic' international market - Japan, India, the Philippines, Malaysia, etc.  Is it likely that they and other Commonwealth nations who have done the equivalent are going to break those agreements in order to restablish agreements with the UK.  I doubt it; they'll retain the existing 'small' agreements, but won't ditch the big ones simply for nothing other than sentimentality.
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Jack Knave

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1059 on: May 06, 2016, 06:37:59 PM »
Oh, so you're into arguing with yourself, eh, JK?   ;)
He's the only intelligent person I can find around here.  ;)  ;)  ;D

Jack Knave

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1060 on: May 06, 2016, 06:46:55 PM »
Well, ~TW~ the very process of leaving the EU will cost the UK millions, let alone the additional costs that will accrue once we finally leave.  The process alone could take between 2 and 10 years, as we untangle ourselves from the agreements, contracts and relationships we are in.  How many affordable houses, hospitals, health centres and staff could that money be spent on?
We can solve this by repealing the 1972 EEC act which would negate every treaty we have signed, and then go onto a WTO basis for our trade.

Quote
Supporters of the Leave Campaign love to say that we will manage on our own by re-establishing trading agreements with Commonwealth and other nations.  That will be easier to say than do; whereas Australia, for instance, had a large trading package with the UK until the mid 1970s, most of what that involved has been redirected to what they regard as their 'domestic' international market - Japan, India, the Philippines, Malaysia, etc.  Is it likely that they and other Commonwealth nations who have done the equivalent are going to break those agreements in order to restablish agreements with the UK.  I doubt it; they'll retain the existing 'small' agreements, but won't ditch the big ones simply for nothing other than sentimentality.
Once on the WTO basis we can gradually feel our way back into our friends in the commonwealth. No rush required. And then we will be free of the stagnate and dying EU.

jeremyp

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1061 on: May 06, 2016, 09:17:20 PM »
In what way.  You have to stop making unfounded assertions.

You likened my explanation of global economics to a transaction between two individual humans.
 
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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1062 on: May 07, 2016, 01:13:52 PM »
Well, ~TW~ the very process of leaving the EU will cost the UK millions, let alone the additional costs that will accrue once we finally leave.  The process alone could take between 2 and 10 years, as we untangle ourselves from the agreements, contracts and relationships we are in.  How many affordable houses, hospitals, health centres and staff could that money be spent on?

Supporters of the Leave Campaign love to say that we will manage on our own by re-establishing trading agreements with Commonwealth and other nations.  That will be easier to say than do; whereas Australia, for instance, had a large trading package with the UK until the mid 1970s, most of what that involved has been redirected to what they regard as their 'domestic' international market - Japan, India, the Philippines, Malaysia, etc.  Is it likely that they and other Commonwealth nations who have done the equivalent are going to break those agreements in order to restablish agreements with the UK.  I doubt it; they'll retain the existing 'small' agreements, but won't ditch the big ones simply for nothing other than sentimentality.

I hope you know more about the referendum then you do the bible.I cant take anything you say seriously.

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jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1063 on: May 08, 2016, 12:26:59 AM »
You likened my explanation of global economics to a transaction between two individual humans.

You know what an analogy is right?

Oh and you were explaining how the EURO arguments differed from those of the EU.
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jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1064 on: May 08, 2016, 12:36:23 AM »
And what is so great about these recent migrants is they are better educated than many of the Brits who apply for jobs - I've hired Polish receptionists with degrees from Poland - their English is not as good as local people obviously but their productivity and self-motivation are great. And it's good for business to show diversity in our hiring policy, as we appeal to a wider range of customers.

Mostly agree but I'm afraid I'm not able to go along with your prejudice here, I take people as I find them.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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Hope

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1065 on: May 08, 2016, 08:41:39 AM »
Mostly agree but I'm afraid I'm not able to go along with your prejudice here, I take people as I find them.
And what prejudice would that be, jaks?  That people from abroad are often better educated than those Brits who might also apply for the jobs?
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jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1066 on: May 08, 2016, 11:30:58 AM »
And what prejudice would that be, jaks?  That people from abroad are often better educated than those Brits who might also apply for the jobs?

Yes, swap your statement:-

Brits are better educated than foreigners.

Doesn't pass the sniff test does it.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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~TW~

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1067 on: May 09, 2016, 09:24:03 AM »
Enjoy
                                   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozj0qwnMGZ0

 ~TW~
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Nearly Sane

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1068 on: May 09, 2016, 11:31:43 AM »
I can't help but think statements like this are seen as simple scaremongering. Though it hasn't reached quite the scale in the Scottish referendum when greater threat of alien invasion was mentioned.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296

Aruntraveller

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1069 on: May 09, 2016, 12:14:04 PM »
I can't help but think statements like this are seen as simple scaremongering. Though it hasn't reached quite the scale in the Scottish referendum when greater threat of alien invasion was mentioned.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296

Couldn't agree more NS - the very same thought occurred to me when I saw it on the news this morning. I'd really like to enjoy his discomfiture on this issue, unfortunately it is too serious a matter to fully benefit from it.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1070 on: May 09, 2016, 12:27:50 PM »
I can't help but think statements like this are seen as simple scaremongering. Though it hasn't reached quite the scale in the Scottish referendum when greater threat of alien invasion was mentioned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296

Got a link to that Alien invasion story? I thought it was a spoof.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1071 on: May 09, 2016, 01:25:21 PM »
Got a link to that Alien invasion story? I thought it was a spoof.


Speech from Philip Hammond. If you do a search on space you'll see the comment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/why-defence-matters-in-the-scottish-independence-debate

jakswan

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1072 on: May 09, 2016, 01:36:53 PM »

Speech from Philip Hammond. If you do a search on space you'll see the comment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/why-defence-matters-in-the-scottish-independence-debate

No mention of aliens though?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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SweetPea

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1073 on: May 09, 2016, 07:56:48 PM »
Enjoy
                                   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozj0qwnMGZ0

 ~TW~

Good find, ~TW~ ... Thank you.

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Re: The result of the EU referendum:
« Reply #1074 on: May 09, 2016, 08:09:50 PM »
Good find, ~TW~ ... Thank you.

If you are on Facebook or Twitter, please share.
I have already done it.
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