The result of the EU referendum:

[L.A.]

You can also quickly and easily identify them by their penchant for claiming that they and only they live in 'the real world.'

When a group of political activists realise that their 'world' is not shared by the electorate - it's time they stopped and think, but I guess that the Corbynites are too blinkered to notice.

[ProfessorDavey]

When a group of political activists realise that their 'world' is not shared by the electorate - it's time they stopped and think, but I guess that the Corbynites are too blinkered to notice.

It is the echo chamber effect - if you spend too long in the company only of people who agree with you (however tiny a fraction of the population that might be) you can begin to believe that 'everyone thinks like this'.

[Nearly Sane]

When a group of political activists realise that their 'world' is not shared by the electorate - it's time they stopped and think, but I guess that the Corbynites are too blinkered to notice.

Surely on the basis that the Tories only got 37% of those that voted that applies to them too?

[L.A.]

Dear Loony lefties, ( is that me, must be I like that chap Corbyn )

Yes, as soon as Mr Corbyn reared his crinkled suit, no tie, ban the bomb head we stuck a label on him, hell! the man dislike our Monarchy but I like our Monarchy, so why do I like the man, he is refreshing, he talks of fairness, he does see the bigger picture, he knows capitalism is a busted flush, he knows we have to change our thinking both politically and morally, why is he not speaking more about the Tory smoke and mirror EU referendum, well I think he has, he wants us to stay.

Gonnagle.

I dare say you'll be wanting one of these then G:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Citizen-Smith-1-2-DVD/dp/B000067A8W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1464953908&sr=8-1&keywords=Citizen+Smith

 

[Gonnagle]

Dear Lapsed,

When a group of political activists realise that their 'world' is not shared by the electorate - it's time they stopped and think, but I guess that the Corbynites are too blinkered to notice.

The word is "yet" but when that electorate is hit in the pocket "again" they might just change their minds, just how many financial crashes does it need before we say, something is deeply wrong here!

I like the Labour parties message, remain and reform.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36439905

Gonnagle.

[L.A.]

Dear Lapsed,

The word is "yet" but when that electorate is hit in the pocket "again" they might just change their minds, just how many financial crashes does it need before we say, something is deeply wrong here!

I like the Labour parties message, remain and reform.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36439905

Gonnagle.

I don't think that his words:

Mr Corbyn said the Labour message was "loud and clear", that the Conservative Party was a bigger threat to the country than the European Union was, and that whether on workers' rights, the environment, or renewable energy, Britain can achieve more progressive policies working with other countries in the EU than alone.

are exactly going to send  the 'don't knows' rushing to the Remain camp.

He's just talking to a small bunch of activists.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Lapsed,

POWER TO THE PEOPLE, well actually I quite like that, but all people, not just the people who know how to work the system, funny but I am a Tory in some ways, there are some poor people who know how to work the system, but they are a very tiny minority, lets start with the fat cats, funny again that I agree with most of what Jack Knave chunters on about, the EU is corrupt, but unlike him I think we can get rid of them by reforming the EU, I suppose all this EU nonsense has had one positive effect, we are now more savvy about its going on and we know it needs to change.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Lapsed,

Mr Corbyn also talked about bee's and climate change, but hell! Bee's and climate change, not important, sounds like something only a loony leftie would talk about, I bet he is also one of those, save the rain forest types, I wonder if he hugs tree's, right bunch of loonies.

Gonnagle.

[L.A.]

Dear Lapsed,

Mr Corbyn also talked about bee's and climate change, but hell! Bee's and climate change, not important, sounds like something only a loony leftie would talk about, I bet he is also one of those, save the rain forest types, I wonder if he hugs tree's, right bunch of loonies.

Gonnagle.

Of course bees are important, but they aren't really foremost in most peoples minds when it comes to the EU referendum.

[Nearly Sane]

Of course bees are important, but they aren't really foremost in most peoples minds when it comes to the EU referendum.

He's a pretty crap speaker and his speechwriters don't do well but then William Lane Craig is a very good speaker. doesn't mean the message is wrong or right.

[ProfessorDavey]

He's a pretty crap speaker and his speechwriters don't do well but then William Lane Craig is a very good speaker. doesn't mean the message is wrong or right.

It isn't so much the issue of him being a crap speaker, although if you want to get elected it helps to be able to communicate your views effectively.

No the big issue is that he is a woefully inexperienced and ineffective leader. He simply has never had any leadership experience despite being in active politics for decades - and that speaks volumes. Surely if he was any good as a leader he'd have a least held some leadership position at some point - but he hasn't. What is also very telling is that those people who have had the closest working relationship with him, those that actually know what his leadership skills are rejected him massively - those people of course being his own MPs.

[Nearly Sane]

'Je suis leur chef, il faut que je les suive'

[Gonnagle]

Dear Lapsed,

Ah well! me and you ( is that, you and I ) are in agreement that we stay, we can both hold hands and walk into the sunset, further, further!! since ProfDavey, Jeremyp and Gabriella have wiped the floor with Jakswan and Jack Knave, we can all hold hands and walk into the sunset singing, "Rule Brittania" or is that "It's the World in Union".

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

those people of course being his own MPs.

Those same MP's who Shaker keeps telling us ( and he's not wrong ) are plastic Tories.

Anyway it has been a joy reading all your posts on here regarding the EU, I am wiser for your input, thank you.

Gonnagle.

[ProfessorDavey]

'Je suis leur chef, il faut que je les suive'

I am your leader - look at my wealth of experience - I'm 67, I've been in public life for 42 years since I was elected to Islington council, I've been an MP for 33 years - here is a list of all my major leadership roles:

Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on the Chagos Islands

Oh - that's it ...

[Nearly Sane]

I am your leader - look at my wealth of experience - I'm 67, I've been in public life for 42 years since I was elected to Islington council, I've been an MP for 33 years - here is a list of all my major leadership roles:

Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on the Chagos Islands

Oh - that's it ...

Which sort of misses the point. Leaders are also representatives of those who vote for them. 

[SusanDoris]

One thing here that makes me skip over posts is the constant concern about whether we will all be richer. If that's all they worry about then I think it is very sad. Of course it is much better not to have personal worries over money and to live in a country where things run quite well overall, but to focus on being richer is one of those single issues which should not make people vote in or out. I have thought right from the start that the top, most important issue is to maintain contact, communication, co-operation to the best of all EU countries' abilities. There is no perfect situation - human nature just doesn't work that way - but improved conditions for all is much more likely to become more possible with remaining in the EU group.

There was something on the radio at lunchtime about young people finding it a bit tricky to register to vote on line because of having to give Nat Ins number. I don't know about that, but hope very much that as many as possible will be on that register in time to vote.

[ProfessorDavey]

Which sort of misses the point. Leaders are also representatives of those who vote for them.

But they also have to have the ability to lead - and a successful leader of a major political party must be able to reach beyond the narrow confines of the members of that party to the wider electorate in order to be electable (in a general election sense).

Also the notion that the 232 people who know his abilities the very best, his parliamentary colleagues overwhelmingly rejected him speaks volumes.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Susan,

Amen sister, Amen.

Gonnagle.

[ProfessorDavey]

One thing here that makes me skip over posts is the constant concern about whether we will all be richer. If that's all they worry about then I think it is very sad. Of course it is much better not to have personal worries over money and to live in a country where things run quite well overall, but to focus on being richer is one of those single issues which should not make people vote in or out. I have thought right from the start that the top, most important issue is to maintain contact, communication, co-operation to the best of all EU countries' abilities. There is no perfect situation - human nature just doesn't work that way - but improved conditions for all is much more likely to become more possible with remaining in the EU group.

There was something on the radio at lunchtime about young people finding it a bit tricky to register to vote on line because of having to give Nat Ins number. I don't know about that, but hope very much that as many as possible will be on that register in time to vote.

I think the notion of being 'richer' goes well beyond narrow personal concerns of personal income. When we are talking about the wealth of a country, it's GDP, that is much broader - it is what provides the possibility to fund public services - to take decisions about improving infrastructure, to ensure that pensions can be maintained etc etc. If we are wealthier as a nation we can do more to improve the lives of individuals.

But you are right - this isn't just about economics - it is about peace, it is about stability, it is about freedom, it is about having a mature modern democratic way of deciding things, it is about cooperation, it is about coming together to solve global problems, it is about tolerance, about rejecting petty nationalism and the 'they're different, we don't like them' attitude. It is about being outward looking, forward looking, open and receptive to different cultures and attitudes. It is about being grown up and mature and recognising that we can't always blame everything that goes wrong on someone else (whether that be Johnny Foreigner or the EU), that we have to step up to the plate and start taking responsibility for our own actions and decisions.

It is about all that - which is why (to paraphrase Jakswan) I'd sill be in favour of being in the EU even were there to be some economic cost to being a member compared to leaving. The good news is you can have all that good 'on principle' stuff and you can be better off by staying compared to leaving.

What's not to like - Vote Remain.

[jakswan]

Ah progress - you appear to be accepting that we will be nearly £2billion a week (at 2016 prices) worse off if we leave that remaining - thats about £900million a week knocked off public spending. Progress at last.

See this is dogma lead reply, I've told you countless times I think predicting GDP to 2030 is a lottery. The economy will continue to grow if we leave, I accept that potentially we might not grow as fast and we might grow faster, how much that gap would be depends on so many factors its impossible to put a figure on it.

Now had the CBI, Treasury come out and said 'you will have a ten year recession' then that would be maybe too much of price to pay, but none of them have.

But it isn't just you that will be paying, it will be everyone. And no I don't think it si a price worth paying at all - not least because I strongly support the EU as an organisation that provides stability, prosperity, peace, freedom and rights - and also has acted to dampen petty nationalism.

No not just me but that is why everyone gets a vote.

Oh and you were doing so well - back to your climate change denier mentality - all the experts say so, but they're all wrong - I know better. Dogmatic, evangelical claptrap. Still waiting for your alternative view from any credible independent economic organisation.

I think an indicator of a dogma position is when they get all hysterical and create straw men, The arguments from the other side appear stupid and anyone who takes a different view to them is silly.

Not any more and the aforementioned current leader is the reason.

Well I think Corbyn was accurate in describing the treasury taking part in “histrionic” hype and “myth-making”. Well done Corbyn knew you never really were a Bremainer!

[Shaker]

And remember kids - the leader of ISIS will like it if we leave the EU.

Honest Dave said so, it's bound to be true.

[jakswan]

Dear Lapsed,

Ah well! me and you ( is that, you and I ) are in agreement that we stay, we can both hold hands and walk into the sunset, further, further!! since ProfDavey, Jeremyp and Gabriella have wiped the floor with Jakswan and Jack Knave, we can all hold hands and walk into the sunset singing, "Rule Brittania" or is that "It's the World in Union".

Gonnagle.

Gonzo delusion as ever.

[SusanDoris]

Well said, NS. Let's hope there's enough down-to-earth, common sense around on 23rd June.

[Aruntraveller]

Gonzo delusion as ever.

I'd rather have his delusion than your illusion.