The result of the EU referendum:

[ProfessorDavey]

Isn't this getting a bit weird now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36537180

Lovely response from Farage:

Branding other people having the temerity to disagree with him as 'just disgusting... disgraceful'. Rather revealing of the Brexit mindset - utterly unable to accept that other people might not agree with their dogma that the EU is somehow the work of the devil.

If Farage is allowed to organise a flotilla in favour of his position (as indeed is entirely his right) then why shouldn't someone else be allowed a counter flotilla.

[Rhiannon]

Of course they can if they want.

Still weird.

[ProfessorDavey]

Of course they can if they want.

Farage doesn't seem to think so.

[Rhiannon]

It's politically naive of him to think that if he pulls a cringeworthy stunt that's up there with the Edstone that the other side won't be free to match it.

It'd have been more fun if they'd all been dressed as pirates.

[ProfessorDavey]

It's politically naive of him to think that if he pulls a cringeworthy stunt thsts up there with the Edstone that the other side won't match him for it.

It'd have been more fun if they'd all been dressed as pirates.

Farage pretending he stands up for fishermen.

This is the guy who cares so much about the UK fishing industry that he is a member of the EU fisheries committee in his capacity as an MEP ...

Cares so much that of 42 meetings of the EU fisheries committee during his time as a member he has turned up ...

once!!!

[jakswan]

If leave win and there is an attempt at renegotiating, the Conservative Party will self immolate.

Another reason to vote leave then!

[Rhiannon]

Farage pretending he stands up for fishermen.

This is the guy who cares so much about the UK fishing industry that he is a member of the EU fisheries committee in his capacity as an MEP ...

Cares so much that of 42 meetings of the EU fisheries committee during his time as a member he has turned up ...

once!!!

Ok, Remain can be pirates. Brexit can perform HMS Pinafore.

Much better than televised debates, especially if they are also packing comedy cannon. I'd watch.

[ProfessorDavey]

Another reason to vote leave then!

Frankly I think that will happen whatever the outcome. The only outcome that would perhaps avoid this would be a very strong remain vote, but I can't see that happening.

If there is a narrow remain vote the Brexit tory wing will turn on Cameron and Osborne with a vengeance.

[ProfessorDavey]

Ok, Remain can be pirates. Brexit can perform HMS Pinafore.

Much better than televised debates, especially if they are also packing comedy cannon. I'd watch.

Sounds like 'it's a knockout' - always liked the european ones (Jeux sans frontier), held during the evening in some quaint Belgium market town. Should bring it back - albeit with a different presenter!

[jakswan]

No it isn't, not at all.

Where there was a referendum on a treaty that dictated whether a particular member state ratified or refused to ratify that treaty. If a member state refused to ratify the only option for the EU was to amend that treaty and then request ratification again.

That isn't the case here - if the UK votes for Brexit then there is no obligation on the rest of the EU to renegotiate. They can simply accept the decision of the UK and start the process of negotiating exit arrangements.

This is a vote about staying or leaving, not one about renegotiation of EU membership arrangements.

If member state voted to leave a period of negotiation starts, there is nothing stopping the EU offering a better deal and nothing stopping the UK accepting it. Its almost unthinkable that the EU would not offer a better deal.

As I stated if you want to be in a reformed EU vote leave.

[jakswan]

Usually the EU has found a way around the negative vote. However this vote is not an EU matter - but one for the UK only.

If we voted to leave, voices against EU membership in the other EU countries would gain strength. If we left, the EU could fall apart. To reform the EU we need to stay in and work with similarly minded groups in the other countries. That will not happen if we vote to leave.

Yes quite agree the EU could fall apart which is why they would offer a better deal.

[ProfessorDavey]

If member state voted to leave a period of negotiation starts, there is nothing stopping the EU offering a better deal and nothing stopping the UK accepting it. Its almost unthinkable that the EU would not offer a better deal.

As I stated if you want to be in a reformed EU vote leave.

That's not what we are voting on - or hadn't you realised. We are voting to stay or leave - if we vote to leave we will leave.

You sound like someone trying to convince yourself - having a few doubts are you Jakswan as leave winning is beginning to look like a real possibility.

Suggest you vote remain unless you are 100% sure you want to leave, because that's what's going to happen if the UK votes for leave, we will leave.

[jakswan]

Lovely response from Farage:

Branding other people having the temerity to disagree with him as 'just disgusting... disgraceful'. Rather revealing of the Brexit mindset - utterly unable to accept that other people might not agree with their dogma that the EU is somehow the work of the devil.

If Farage is allowed to organise a flotilla in favour of his position (as indeed is entirely his right) then why shouldn't someone else be allowed a counter flotilla.

Says Dogma Davey who can't even concede the other side have an argument and then proceeds to label anyone who holds a different view the same as Farage.

[jakswan]

Frankly I think that will happen whatever the outcome. The only outcome that would perhaps avoid this would be a very strong remain vote, but I can't see that happening.

If there is a narrow remain vote the Brexit tory wing will turn on Cameron and Osborne with a vengeance.

Agree that Cameron and Osborne are dead men walking, think the Tory party will survive if we remain.

[Rhiannon]

Sounds like 'it's a knockout' - always liked the european ones (Jeux sans frontier), held during the evening in some quaint Belgium market town. Should bring it back - albeit with a different presenter!

A change of presenter would be the way to go, yes...

[ProfessorDavey]

If member state voted to leave a period of negotiation starts

The negotiations are on the mechanism for leaving and the relationship between the EU and the UK once we have left. It isn't on negotiation a new settlement to remain.

And think about it this way - if the EU suddenly started throwing concessions left, right and centre to any country that threatened to leave then their would be chaos. Every country would simply threaten to leave to get its own way. It won't happen.

[jakswan]

That's not what we are voting on - or hadn't you realised. We are voting to stay or leave - if we vote to leave we will leave.

You sound like someone trying to convince yourself - having a few doubts are you Jakswan as leave winning is beginning to look like a real possibility.

Suggest you vote remain unless you are 100% sure you want to leave, because that's what's going to happen if the UK votes for leave, we will leave.

I've told you Dogma Davey I'm not 100%, I'm not 100% on anything, I'm about 75%. If someone is 100% on something they are clearly dogmatic evangelical types.

I'm very comfortable out, 75%, as I explained earlier, your new best buddy Cameron 'clearly the UK can survive outside of the EU', I'm with John Mann.

I suspect the EU will try to keep us in, as a matter of interest if we get a leave vote will you be campaigning for a new deal, or, just blindly insisting that it isn't possible? Be warned you might have to stand by your answer!

[jakswan]

The negotiations are on the mechanism for leaving and the relationship between the EU and the UK once we have left. It isn't on negotiation a new settlement to remain.

And think about it this way - if the EU suddenly started throwing concessions left, right and centre to any country that threatened to leave then their would be chaos. Every country would simply threaten to leave to get its own way. It won't happen.

Yet on treaties that are voted against they do exactly that and wait... listen... no chaos.

[Shaker]

Agree that Cameron and Osborne are dead men walking, think the Tory party will survive if we remain.

In itself more than enough reason to vote Leave if ever there was one.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yet on treaties that are voted against they do exactly that and wait... listen... no chaos.

Because they have to - because they are just that treaties that require ratification by all member states - if one fails to ratify they have carry on working until they get unanimous agreement.

This is different in one respect, similar in another.

The difference being that there is no requirement for the EU to do anything to stop a member state leaving so there won't be a revised deal to stay.

It is similar in that any post-Brexit deal on relationship between the UK and the remaining EU will require agreement from all remaining member states, so if one doesn't like it (e.g. Romania on migration) then there will be no deal until the EU has compromised (with Romania) enough to allow them to sign up.

[ProfessorDavey]

I've told you Dogma Davey I'm not 100%, I'm not 100% on anything, I'm about 75%. If someone is 100% on something they are clearly dogmatic evangelical types.

I'm very comfortable out, 75%, as I explained earlier, your new best buddy Cameron 'clearly the UK can survive outside of the EU', I'm with John Mann.

I suspect the EU will try to keep us in, as a matter of interest if we get a leave vote will you be campaigning for a new deal, or, just blindly insisting that it isn't possible? Be warned you might have to stand by your answer!

You suddenly sound very much like someone who'd like to vote leave, but for the actual outcome to be remain - whether because remain win, or due to your fantasy view that voting leave will actually mean remain.

Sounds as if you are playing a very dangerous game Jakswan - I suggest that unless you would be 100% happy outside the EU (whatever the actual post-Brexit situation turns out to be, which of course no-one can tell you) then perhaps you'd be better voting remain.

You don't want to end up with buyer's remorse would you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer%27s_remorse

[Gonnagle]

Dearie Me,

Five good reasons to vote leave.

Joey Essex is for leave.

Nigel Farage is for leave.

Boris Johnson is for leave.

Jakswan is for leave.

Jack Knave is for leave.

Pillars I tell you!! pillars of reason and intelligence, this is why I will be voting................. last one to leave the EU turn the lights off

Gonnagle.

[ProfessorDavey]

Dearie Me,

Five good reasons to vote leave.

Joey Essex is for leave.

Nigel Farage is for leave.

Boris Johnson is for leave.

Jakswan is for leave.

Jack Knave is for leave.

Pillars I tell you!! pillars of reason and intelligence, this is why I will be voting................. last one to leave the EU turn the lights off

Gonnagle.

Agree on all counts except Jakswan.

Apart from this particular issue he's always seemed pretty sane to me.

But then he does seem to be talking himself into believing that it is OK for him to vote leave because we will remain anyway.

[jakswan]

Because they have to - because they are just that treaties that require ratification by all member states - if one fails to ratify they have carry on working until they get unanimous agreement.

This is different in one respect, similar in another.

The difference being that there is no requirement for the EU to do anything to stop a member state leaving so there won't be a revised deal to stay.

It is similar in that any post-Brexit deal on relationship between the UK and the remaining EU will require agreement from all remaining member states, so if one doesn't like it (e.g. Romania on migration) then there will be no deal until the EU has compromised (with Romania) enough to allow them to sign up.

Well if this is true then the EU can't be reformed, if you want to stay in reformed EU you just as well vote leave.

You foot is bleeding, have you just shot it again?

[jakswan]

You suddenly sound very much like someone who'd like to vote leave, but for the actual outcome to be remain - whether because remain win, or due to your fantasy view that voting leave will actually mean remain.

No let me be very clear I'm voting leave, I think I've played a part in changing some peoples minds as well.

Sounds as if you are playing a very dangerous game Jakswan - I suggest that unless you would be 100% happy outside the EU (whatever the actual post-Brexit situation turns out to be, which of course no-one can tell you) then perhaps you'd be better voting remain.

No thanks!

You don't want to end up with buyer's remorse would you:

Neither do you my friend, a former Labour member voting for neo-liberalism, could very well regret the outcome of remain.