The result of the EU referendum:

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The real irony is that the Brexiteers are being greatly assisted by the 'couldn't care less' attitude of Corbyn and co.

The media like a big sexy disaster and while they consider him to be the latter,1 out of three is bad as far as they are concerned. For the media Brexit represents greater disaster potential and so they are for it almost to a man.

[Nearly Sane]

I've been totally underwhelmed by everything I have heard. Corbyn restated that he was Eurosceptic and Tom Watsons's comments about future negotiation to reform freedom of movement rules is just confuse the issues - it's such obvious crap.

But surely the comment on Corbyn means you want no nuance or consideration. He didn't say he was a Euro sceptic as it commonly means in that he wanted out. He just didn't say that if you leave the EU your children will be eaten by Mongol hordes.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ahoy there............ Sir Bob sinks Titanic brexitbore.

Nigel thinks he's the ruler of the queen's Nayvee.

[Jack Knave]

Usually the EU has found a way around the negative vote. However this vote is not an EU matter - but one for the UK only.

If we voted to leave, voices against EU membership in the other EU countries would gain strength. If we left, the EU could fall apart. To reform the EU we need to stay in and work with similarly minded groups in the other countries. That will not happen if we vote to leave.

If that was going to happen it would have happened by now but as many know the EU lot won't consider any minute change.

Cameron went to the EU with the threat of leaving them and all that will mean to their survival and yet they were stupid enough to give no leeway, not a nanometre, to avoid it - such hubris and arrogance and irresponsibility.

The only way to kick'em where it hurts is to leave.

[Shaker]

But surely the comment on Corbyn means you want no nuance or consideration. He didn't say he was a Euro sceptic as it commonly means in that he wanted out. He just didn't say that if you leave the EU your children will be eaten by Mongol hordes.

It's a wonder that somebody hasn't already claimed that, but there's still a week to go after all.

[Jack Knave]

If leave win and there is an attempt at renegotiating, the Conservative Party will self immolate.

I think that will be true even if it is a slim Remain vote. Only a massive Remain vote will help Cam-Ossy to stay in power. The Remain lot are finding that the economic argument isn't doing the trick and I'm guessing we are going to see a shift to some other theme in the last week.

Wow. As we approach the vote I'm getting goose bumps because this could be a mega change all round. No one knows. The polls are unreliable and the debates going on at the street level are detached from the farce that is going on with the two official teams. These two don't seem to have done their homework, stuck as they are in the Westminster bubble.

[Spud]

I've been totally underwhelmed by everything I have heard. Corbyn restated that he was Eurosceptic and Tom Watsons's comments about future negotiation to reform freedom of movement rules is just confuse the issues - it's such obvious crap.

Hi L.A. To my mind, the freedom of movement for workers rule is flawed. It is fine most of the time for most countries (I suppose) but what about when a particular country becomes an over-popular destination? I don't know much about economics, but it would mean that the migrant population competes with the indigenous people for jobs and in many cases render them unemployed. Great for the economy, but what about someone in Britain who wants to work on a fruit farm just to pay his way, but can't compete with Slovakian immigrants who are more adapted to living off the land. Great for the farmer who employs the foreign workers, but not so great for the people who can't work the land they were born into because of immigrants from a few thousand miles away.

Since there appears to be no chance of any cap on migration being allowed by the EU in future, I don't see how it can be right to stay in the EU, given that Britain is becoming a very popular destination for foreign workers.

[Jack Knave]

If leave win and there is an attempt at renegotiating, the Conservative Party will self immolate.

Another reason to vote leave then!

Spot on!!!

[Rhiannon]

If the Leavers win and David Cameron gets deposed, I think the Tory Party will collapse. I heard on the news a weaker two ago that some of the pro EU Torys in Parliament will side with the pro EU people from other parties and effectively block any attempt to start the process of leaving which they can do because, excepting party lines, Remain has a big majority in the HoC.

Another possibility is that Boris is only pro Leave because he thinks that is the easiest way to get Cameron's job. Once he's got Cameron's job, he will go  to the other EU countries and ask for a better deal and when we get one, he'll decide we should stay in. The Tory Party will still collapse.

As PD says, I think this is big trouble for the Tories no matter which way it goes unless Remain gets a big majority, which we won't.

I agree.

It's bizarre to see the Leave campaign presenting what is almost an election manifesto. The day after the referendum we'll still have the same government and then there will be an election if Cameron resigns. And neither Gove nor Johnson could be the party leader - in fact I think the party would opt for someone not too closely associated with either side.

[Nearly Sane]

Another reason to vote leave then!

Spot on!!!

You do both get that this is if renegotiating happens after a Leave vote. So you are both wanting any leave vote to be ignored and then be happy with any fall out from that?

[Jack Knave]

Yes quite agree the EU could fall apart which is why they would offer a better deal.

Not until the last minute. But what we could do during those 2 years is link up with the anti-EUers in the member states and get them to force significant change in the EU.

[jakswan]

Well, I think Labour are completely incoherent, and have been since Blair and Brown left.   

However, handing power over to the right wing of the Tories seems bizarre to me; well, I assume that a victory for Leave will have this result.    With Boris and Gove at the helm,  and in an atmosphere of mounting xenophobia, help.  I am actually scared.

Hang on your voting for remain because you don't like the Tories? Gove and Johnson are not the right of the Tory party, they are pretty liberal, e.g. both supported same sex marriage.

Johnson and Gove are concerned with the levels of immigration, as are many centre Labour MPs nothing xenophbic about it, its people like you who instantly come out with this bile that actually fuel the hard right. Now that is irony.

[Nearly Sane]

I agree.

It's bizarre to see the Leave campaign presenting what is almost an election manifesto. The day after the referendum we'll still have the same government and then there will be an election if Cameron resigns. And neither Gove nor Johnson could be the party leader - in fact I think the party would opt for someone not too closely associated with either side.

But what is the manifesto? More money for NHS, NHS to be privatised. More immigration, less immigration. No TTIP, harsher TTIP. All of them are part of the slate.

[jakswan]

Vote Remain than and campaign to reform the EU. If we vote leave and use the result to hold a gun to the EU's head so as to get our way, we will rightly be perceived as a bunch of cunts by the rest of Europe.

No I'd prefer to deal the best cards I can to the British Government in order they can negotiate the best deal possible. If they don't negotiate they won't reform and I don't want to stay in the EU.

[jakswan]

Another possibility is that Boris is only pro Leave because he thinks that is the easiest way to get Cameron's job. Once he's got Cameron's job, he will go  to the other EU countries and ask for a better deal and when we get one, he'll decide we should stay in. The Tory Party will still collapse.

Davey says this is not going to happen, I look forward to you two debating this issue.

[jakswan]

But surely the comment on Corbyn means you want no nuance or consideration. He didn't say he was a Euro sceptic as it commonly means in that he wanted out. He just didn't say that if you leave the EU your children will be eaten by Mongol hordes.

Correct, actually even though I disagree with Corbyn on most things, he is much more balanced when presenting the arguments. I don't think either campaign has covered itself in glory but Cameron and Osborne fluffed it big time, hopefully they continue to come up with more punishment budgets.

[Nearly Sane]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eu-referendum-statistics-regulator-loses-patience-with-leave-campaign-over-350m-a-week-eu-cost-a7051756.html

[Jack Knave]

Dearie Me,

Five good reasons to vote leave.

Joey Essex is for leave.

Nigel Farage is for leave.

Boris Johnson is for leave.

Jakswan is for leave.

Jack Knave is for leave.

Pillars I tell you!! pillars of reason and intelligence, this is why I will be voting................. last one to leave the EU turn the lights off

Gonnagle.

And by voting to stay you are with Goldman Sachs, big corporations, bankers, Cameron and Osborne, Blair... your friends, I presume?

[Nearly Sane]

Correct, actually even though I disagree with Corbyn on most things, he is much more balanced when presenting the arguments. I don't think either campaign has covered itself in glory but Cameron and Osborne fluffed it big time, hopefully they continue to come up with more punishment budgets.

Just arrived pith that leave me Cameron and Osborne look borderline Sane from your viewpoint then

[Jack Knave]

Yes, that's why I used the word 'irony', that a pretty right-wing Tory government has been outflanked by an even more right-wing Tory faction, which may provide a new government.   I suppose racism and xenophobia have done the hard yards for Leave, and this has sucked in working class voters apparently, who don't like fuzzy-wuzzies. 

Another irony is that austerity has made people fed up, and voting Leave allows them to express that, but it may lead to even more.

So should we have a GE after the referendum if it is leave?

[Jack Knave]

Address the point I made about the CAP if you don't want be called a moron.

I did address it it's just that you didn't like the answer.

[Nearly Sane]

And by voting to stay you are with Goldman Sachs, big corporations, bankers, Cameron and Osborne, Blair... your friends, I presume?

And by voting to stay you are with Goldman Sachs, big corporations, bankers, Cameron and Osborne, Blair... your friends, I presume?

Rupert Murdoch, and George Galloway, and Putin  your friends then?

[SweetPea]

Dearie Me,

Five good reasons to vote leave.

Joey Essex is for leave.

Nigel Farage is for leave.

Boris Johnson is for leave.

Jakswan is for leave.

Jack Knave is for leave.

Pillars I tell you!! pillars of reason and intelligence, this is why I will be voting................. last one to leave the EU turn the lights off

Gonnagle.

Gonners, my reasons for leaving:

From Jack Knave:
But the long term plan of the EU is not for those protections it is total rule from Brussels, just as Moscow had total rule over the Soviet Union. The Ever-Closer-Union is for all the power to be centralised in Brussels and who can tell if and when a Stalin type figure will come along in the future and rule like the last Stalin. We are not voting to get the UK out of the EU we are voting to free the European people. Perhaps not today, perhaps not tomorrow but for some future generation who will not thank us if we allow them to be born into slavehood.

From ekim:
The trouble with bureaucracies is that they grow and grow feeding on ever more regulations with an increasing cost to taxpayers and a burgeoning and complex legal system beyond the scope of ordinary people to challenge.  I would say that the threat is not so much to world peace (if ever such a concept comes about), but it can lead to internal civil unrest, especially if it is perceived that there is no way to change the regulations other than by force.


From myself:
The European Union was formed by the Bilderberg Group. Many do not know this or anything about this group. Only relatively, in recent years, have reports of their meetings been made public. These meetings are held annually by a mix of a select few from politics, finance (ie rich and powerful bankers) business, the media, the CIA and MI6. No minutes are taken, no reporters are allowed in, there is no opening press conference, no closing statement, and participants are asked not to quote each other. The EU MEPs cannot initiate legislation, propose legislation or even the repeal of legislation, all of which comes from the unelected European commission.


All amounting to:

"The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.” ~ Vladimir Lenin

[L.A.]

But surely the comment on Corbyn means you want no nuance or consideration. He didn't say he was a Euro sceptic as it commonly means in that he wanted out. He just didn't say that if you leave the EU your children will be eaten by Mongol hordes.

His tone was so non-committal, that if I was undecided and I'd actually got any regard for him - I probably wouldn't bother voting.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

European weather to be stopped from entering the UK by the Navy after Brexit.