The result of the EU referendum:

[Jack Knave]

Dear SweetPea,

Thankyou for your post, my reason for remaining, I am a Christian.

Our Lord suffers no borders, Our Lords laughs at mans plans, Our Lord knows that being a Christian is not the easy path, Our Lord knows that we stand outside prejudice, Our Lord knows that we are all sinners, Our Lord stands above politics, Our Lord knows our place is only to help the down trodden, that is what it means when we take up the Cross, we serve, servants of Christ, we do not serve politicians.

For me as a Christian there is only one vote, remain, we remain to serve, not the politicians but Christ, Christians offer the hand of friendship, Christians turn no one away, no matter creed, colour, religion or sexual orientation, we serve God, how do we serve God, we serve man.

Gonnagle.

"Our Lords laughs at mans plans"

Then why are you voting for one of the biggest ever plans of mankind then?

"Our Lord stands above politics"

Then why are you voting for one of the biggest political projects ever?

What has the EU got to do with Christ and your faith? They are more like 666.

Your statement is a load of bollocks and you definitely have your brains well and truly stuffed up your podex.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Having a referendum is in fact.....a complete crock.....we are in the EU by treaty. Whatever other treaty have we been allowed a referendum on? That's right, no treaty ......for example we will not have a referendum on whether to remain or leave Nato.

If we leave what does that say to others about the UK and treaties and deals?....and that amid all the Brexit nonsense about the ease of making deals.

The fuck up is all David's. I believe the Labour position was to have a referendum on any new powers,

[SweetPea]

I must confess that I had never heard of the Bilderberg group. But Sweet Pea's concern aroused my interest, after all, she has put us right about crop circles, electromagnetic pulses from CERN causing earthquakes and the heinous fraud of the so-called "moon landings". Her ability to detect high-level conspiracy and to give us appropriate warning of the dangers and damage facing us is without parallel on this forum.

Harrowby, if you checkout the moon landings thread, I'm not there. But presumably you think other posters are conspiracy theorists?

So, does it not seem strange to you that you have never heard of the Bilderberg Group, after all they are responsible for the creation and running of the EU? Do you not wonder why you never hear about any of their activities on the news or through other media? Why are such a powerful group of people not more transparent with their plans for the people they govern.... why are no minutes taken at their meetings and thus nothing is recorded or can be verified.... why do MEPs have next to no powers. Stop for a moment and think on these things.

Nearly Sane mentioned Jon Ronson but his stuff is very sensational. I'd say a much better read would be 'The True Story of the Bilderberg Group' by Daniel Estulin who studied the EU for 14 years. Far more fact based and well researched.

[Rhiannon]

They're so secret there's a full list of participants on their website.

http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/participants.html

[Nearly Sane]

We were talking about the collapse of the Tory party.

after ignoring a Leave vote. Do keep up!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jacqueline,

What's up Dear, did my little post frighten you, a simple little post from one Christian to another, never mind darlin! go out and buy yourself a new pair of shoe's with matching handbag to cheer yourself up

Podex! how very charming of you

Gonnagle.

[L.A.]

I see that Lidl currently have an offer on petrol generators. Do they know something that we don't?

I am wondering whether it might be a good investment to purchase one  before next Thursday.

[Spud]

Harrowby, if you checkout the moon landings thread, I'm not there. But presumably you think other posters are conspiracy theorists?

So, does it not seem strange to you that you have never heard of the Bilderberg Group, after all they are responsible for the creation and running of the EU? Do you not wonder why you never hear about any of their activities on the news or through other media? Why are such a powerful group of people not more transparent with their plans for the people they govern.... why are no minutes taken at their meetings and thus nothing is recorded or can be verified.... why do MEPs have next to no powers. Stop for a moment and think on these things.

Nearly Sane mentioned Jon Ronson but his stuff is very sensational. I'd say a much better read would be 'The True Story of the Bilderberg Group' by Daniel Estulin who studied the EU for 14 years. Far more fact based and well researched.

SweetPea, The statue of the pagan goddess Europa riding on the back of a beast, which Zeus transformed himself into to seduce her) outside the EU headquarters is strange. I don't quite know why they have it, or whether the myth means anything in particular, but would be interested in your opinion on this:
"The Lisbon Treaty, which came into full effect on December 1st, basically ended the national sovereignty for most European nations.  Most of the important decisions for the citizens of Europe will now be made by a small group of European elitists – many of them totally unelected.  But for the global elite, the consolidation of the EU is just one step towards a larger goal.  You see, the ultimate desire of these elitists is to merge regional alliances such as the EU into a world government."
https://inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/europe-rides-the-beast/
The article seems a bit paranoid, but one does wonder why the woman on a beast is used as a symbol in the various statues, coins and pictures shown in the link, when it has such negative connotations in Revelation.

[floo]

SweetPea, The statue of the pagan goddess Europa riding on the back of a beast, which Zeus transformed himself into to seduce her) outside the EU headquarters is strange. I don't quite know why they have it, or whether the myth means anything in particular, but would be interested in your opinion on this:
"The Lisbon Treaty, which came into full effect on December 1st, basically ended the national sovereignty for most European nations.  Most of the important decisions for the citizens of Europe will now be made by a small group of European elitists – many of them totally unelected.  But for the global elite, the consolidation of the EU is just one step towards a larger goal.  You see, the ultimate desire of these elitists is to merge regional alliances such as the EU into a world government."
https://inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/europe-rides-the-beast/
The article seems a bit paranoid, but one does wonder why the woman on a beast is used as a symbol in the various statues, coins and pictures shown in the link, when it has such negative connotations in Revelation.

People take notice of that crazy book at their peril, imo.

[Spud]

People take notice of that crazy book at their peril, imo.

FIFY
Any idea why the EU have a woman on a beast as a symbol?

[floo]

FIFY
Any idea why the EU have a woman on a beast as a symbol?

Nothing to do with Revelation that is for sure. That silly book is open to so many crazy interpretations.

[Jack Knave]

So its the wrong kind of trade deal is it. What kind of trade deal fits the bill then Jakswan. This is very clearly a trade deal entered into on a bilateral basis between the UK and China - independently of the EU.

Your question has been answered - tough that you don't like the answer, but that's not my problem.

Oh Davey, you are so talking bollocks!!!

There are no deals there it is just companies dealing with companies using the WTO rulings.

[Jack Knave]

Having a referendum is in fact.....a complete crock.....we are in the EU by treaty. Whatever other treaty have we been allowed a referendum on? That's right, no treaty ......for example we will not have a referendum on whether to remain or leave Nato.

If we leave what does that say to others about the UK and treaties and deals?....and that amid all the Brexit nonsense about the ease of making deals.

The fuck up is all David's. I believe the Labour position was to have a referendum on any new powers,

NATO is not a political union telling us how to run our affairs and imposing free movement of people on us.

[Jack Knave]

after ignoring a Leave vote. Do keep up!

You're getting your knickers in a twist again, NS. It was pretty much any result except for a massive stay one.

[Jack Knave]

Dear Jacqueline,

What's up Dear, did my little post frighten you, a simple little post from one Christian to another, never mind darlin! go out and buy yourself a new pair of shoe's with matching handbag to cheer yourself up

Podex! how very charming of you

Gonnagle.

Looks more like my post got to you.

You didn't answer it either because you know you're getting into bed with the devil.

[Nearly Sane]

You're getting your knickers in a twist again, NS. It was pretty much any result except for a massive stay one.

Jakswan raised the possibility of renegotiating after a Leave vote, that's the point and what was being discussed. The point is that a renegotiation will never happen if there is a Leave vote because the govt would fall if it attempted it. What would happen to Tory party in other circumstances isn't relevant to that discussion.

[Jack Knave]

Jakswan raised the possibility of renegotiating after a Leave vote, that's the point and what was being discussed. The point is that a renegotiation will never happen if there is a Leave vote because the govt would fall if it attempted it. What would happen to Tory party in other circumstances isn't relevant to that discussion.

You just made the statement with no reason why. I'd agree there would be a change in leader, and all the scuffles that would entail, but for the government to collapse that is still only a probability and an unknown. So what is your reasoning here?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

NATO is not a political union telling us how to run our affairs and imposing free movement of people on us.

We signed up to that in treaty. Don't try to turn this country into some kind of victim, that is just a projection....and consider this...if the balloon goes up and we creep towards greater likelihood of that......we will have to go with Nato and give the lives of our sons and daughters.

[Nearly Sane]

You just made the statement with no reason why. I'd agree there would be a change in leader, and all the scuffles that would entail, but for the government to collapse that is still only a probability and an unknown. So what is your reasoning here?

There has already been enough strife in Tory party to cause it problems no matter what the vote is, as you stated. If Leave were to win and the govt then refused to honour that but instead to renegotiate the membership, many Tories would vote against it, some even in favour of Remain. A number would move to UKIP possibly destroying any majority. The only way the Govt could get a vote in the Commons would be with the support of the opposition parties. They will only get it from Labour. If that were to happen I would suspect you would have challenges to both Cameron and Corbyn which would be successful.


The entirety of the parliament would be spent with guerilla tactics on any renegotiation. The EU would see that it wasn't dealing with any form of United front and have no reason to help. The lack of any change would turn more and more Tories into rebels or UKIP MPs.

That's not even taking account of how people we feel if a Vote Leave is ignored. Any bye elections the Tories will lose and those still in seats will feel more pressure to rebel.

And all of the above is far from a doomsday scenario.

[Jack Knave]

We signed up to that in treaty. Don't try to turn this country into some kind of victim, that is just a projection....and consider this...if the balloon goes up and we creep towards greater likelihood of that......we will have to go with Nato and give the lives of our sons and daughters.

It is not whether it is a treaty or not but the content of that treaty that is in question. Come on Vlad you're more intelligent than that to come out with this stupid nonsense.

If its content; NATO's, was not to the British peoples' liking then there would be protests to get us out. Do you see any protest? However, the EU treaties we do see protests against their implications.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It is not whether it is a treaty or not but the content of that treaty that is in question. Come on Vlad you're more intelligent than that to come out with this stupid nonsense.

If its content; NATO's, was not to the British peoples' liking then there would be protests to get us out. Do you see any protest? However, the EU treaties we do see protests against their implications.

The protest about the EU is over immigration. A Brexit government which is globalist Conservative will not give you the satisfaction you seek and yes. Nato is not every bodies cup of tea.

Whatever has been delegated to the EU is by treaty which we freely entered into. Your portrayal of Britain as a victim does not chime with all British...although I do detect a hint of Brexiteers after some kind of reckoning with those who oppose them.

Thomas Mair had a vote and he had a referendum which looks like it was going his way. I think we are entitled to ask when and if Brexiteers will ever, as a movement ever be satisfied.

[Jack Knave]

There has already been enough strife in Tory party to cause it problems no matter what the vote is, as you stated. If Leave were to win and the govt then refused to honour that but instead to renegotiate the membership, many Tories would vote against it, some even in favour of Remain. A number would move to UKIP possibly destroying any majority. The only way the Govt could get a vote in the Commons would be with the support of the opposition parties. They will only get it from Labour. If that were to happen I would suspect you would have challenges to both Cameron and Corbyn which would be successful.


The entirety of the parliament would be spent with guerilla tactics on any renegotiation. The EU would see that it wasn't dealing with any form of United front and have no reason to help. The lack of any change would turn more and more Tories into rebels or UKIP MPs.

That's not even taking account of how people we feel if a Vote Leave is ignored. Any bye elections the Tories will lose and those still in seats will feel more pressure to rebel.

And all of the above is far from a doomsday scenario.

Sorry, with all the firing on all cylinders here I misconceived the meaning of your original post on the word 'renegotiation'. My mind was on trade deals and what not, and not on refiguring our EU membership. You are right, any attempt to not to fulfil the wishes of a leave vote would set the cats among the pigeons, not only in parliament but in the streets.

[L.A.]

There has already been enough strife in Tory party to cause it problems no matter what the vote is, as you stated. If Leave were to win and the govt then refused to honour that but instead to renegotiate the membership, many Tories would vote against it, some even in favour of Remain. A number would move to UKIP possibly destroying any majority. The only way the Govt could get a vote in the Commons would be with the support of the opposition parties. They will only get it from Labour. If that were to happen I would suspect you would have challenges to both Cameron and Corbyn which would be successful.


The entirety of the parliament would be spent with guerilla tactics on any renegotiation. The EU would see that it wasn't dealing with any form of United front and have no reason to help. The lack of any change would turn more and more Tories into rebels or UKIP MPs.

That's not even taking account of how people we feel if a Vote Leave is ignored. Any bye elections the Tories will lose and those still in seats will feel more pressure to rebel.

And all of the above is far from a doomsday scenario.

I agree, I don't think that approach would work and it would be deeply dishonest.

I think Cameron would be forced out fairly quickly, but if Boris got in, he might very well back-track and push for a Norway/Switzerland option. I think he is probably pragmatic enough to grab a small success rather than risk a large disaster.

[Jack Knave]

The protest about the EU is over immigration. A Brexit government which is globalist Conservative will not give you the satisfaction you seek and yes. Nato is not every bodies cup of tea.

Whatever has been delegated to the EU is by treaty which we freely entered into. Your portrayal of Britain as a victim does not chime with all British...although I do detect a hint of Brexiteers after some kind of reckoning with those who oppose them.

Thomas Mair had a vote and he had a referendum which looks like it was going his way. I think we are entitled to ask when and if Brexiteers will ever, as a movement ever be satisfied.

Immigration is just something that the people can see and easily latch on to. The real issue is democracy and self rule.

This is a long term issue which will out live the short term Tory government matter you raise.

Well yes some, but not many, don't like NATO but most do.

Don't understand your victim reference. We did not freely enter into the treaties. When were the people given a referendum on Maastricht and Lisbon?

There is no such thing as the Brexiteers, people want to leave for a whole host of reasons and are not a coherent group.

[Nearly Sane]

I agree, I don't think that approach would work and it would be deeply dishonest.

I think Cameron would be forced out fairly quickly, but if Boris got in, he might very well back-track and push for a Norway/Switzerland option. I think he is probably pragmatic enough to grab a small success rather than risk a large disaster.

He would only get the leadership if he promised to support leave in that situation. Were he to go back on that there would be even more strife.